Good tips to master the use of side spin??

[eaoin11]

Try a few shots using this pivot technique with the cue ball touching the cushion. Play the cue ball along the cushion it is touching using right and left hand side and tell me how much deflection off the line of aim there is. If there is zero like you say then the cue ball should hug the cushion as if a plain ball shot was played.

Now this really does sound like bollocks. If the white's in contact with the cushion it brings a whole lot of other effects into play so it proves nothing.

[vmax4steve]

I've been thinking about this pivot technique that Komakino uses and how it seems to be so very different form the norm. The statement that there is very little or zero deflection is what made me say that it's bollocks, and I stand by that. Look at the attachment, a diagram of a dead straight screw shot with reverse left hand side applied to the cue ball.

The blue line is the line of aim
The red thingy is the cue
and the green line is the line taken by the cue ball because of deflection

Figure A shows how not to play the shot ie: running the cue parallel to the line of aim because the cue ball will deflect along the green line.

Figure B shows how to play the shot correctly ie: adjusting the line of aim to allow for the deflection of the cue ball so that it strikes the object ball on the correct line of aim.

Figure C shows how komakino plays the shot ie: putting the cue along the line of aim for a dead straight shot and then pivoting the cue to apply the left hand side.

As you can see in figure C the line of aim, if drawn, would run parallel with the cue but with more extreme side being applied this line of aim would be taken to the edge of the object ball, therefore the deflection of the cue ball is still being allowed for, more side applied means to allow for more deflection which is exactly what is happening in figure C; Follow ?
Now if less side was to be applied then the pivot point (marked X) would need to be closer to the cue ball, putting it as near as damn it, on the same line of aim as in figure B but with the bridge hand far closer to the cue ball than would be comfortable IMO for this particular shot which requires a fair bit of power and therefore a longer backswing.

To Komakino I would say that your technique does involve deflection but you are unaware of it as you aim at the centre ball line of aim, so no or zero deflection is indeed bollocks, but you are playing a legitimate side spin shot, not one I would advocate due to the moving around of the bridge hand, but I can see how it can become an ingrained technique.

Of course every cue has mass and therefore so does every tip but to try to be aware of it when playing shots with side is bordering on particle physics, not something you should be thinking about when playing snooker. Just practise the shots and work out the deflection O.K.

nrage

you have absolutely no sense of humour.

[eaoin11]

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As you can see in figure C the line of aim, if drawn, would run parallel with the cue but with more extreme side being applied this line of aim would be taken to the edge of the object ball, therefore the deflection of the cue ball is still being allowed for, more side applied means to allow for more deflection which is exactly what is happening in figure C; Follow ?
Now if less side was to be applied then the pivot point (marked X) would need to be closer to the cue ball, putting it as near as damn it, on the same line of aim as in figure B but with the bridge hand far closer to the cue ball than would be comfortable IMO for this particular shot which requires a fair bit of power and therefore a longer backswing.

This principle is perfectly logical, and it's the way I approached side when I was learning. I played a lot of tennis and when using spin the face of the racquet is at quite an angle from the aim of your shot. But it has to be remembered that this explanation is a very simplified view of what's happening in billiards, and doesn't take into account effects of contact with the cloth and the spin of the ball which partially correct the deflection. I've seen videos that show the white swerving back towards the line of the shot after the initial deflection.

Also, the tip of the cue is in contact for a period of time, and at this time it's resisted by friction with the cloth and the weight of the ball, so even if it starts off at very close to parrallel, it isn't when it breaks contact with the cue ball, so it may not be necessary to play off the line of the shot, depending on the weight and flex of the cue and how it's played.

So I think it is quite possible that some techniques/technology allow side to be played with very little off line adjustment. The only way to be sure is testing them and recording shots with slow motion video.

[vmax4steve]

The attachment is an explanation for a reverse side screw shot that is hit with power. The cue ball will not come back onto the line of aim with this shot as it is hit quite hard. For slower shots played with side then the cue ball will come back onto the line of aim and even go beyond it, this I explained in my initial post on this thread. The attachment explains purely about deflection of the cue ball when side is used.
There is ALWAYS deflection of the cue ball when side is used, those who think that the object ball is thrown into a different direction by the side spin on the cue ball are deluded and don't understand what is actually happening. Of course it looks like the object ball is being thrown because the pot is aimed thicker than the actual contact that is made, so if you don't know about deflection then the belief that the cue ball makes the contact that is being aimed for is understandable, but it is wrong except when the cue ball does come back onto the line of aim and makes the correct contact needed for the pot.
As for this pivot technique, why does the bridge hand have to be moved closer or further from the cue ball, why can't you just pivot the cue either more or less to put either a little or a lot of side on the cue ball.
Once again I think that players who use this technique don't quite understand what is happening to the cue ball and are subconciously aiming thicker due to their experience of missing the shot. There is no way anyone can just take up this technique and pot balls straight away with it, the effects have to be learned either in a concious way by understanding what is happening due to the physics of a spinning sphere, or by merely observing that the pots are being struck thinner and adjusting the line of aim accordingly, or by subconciously doing the former .

Those people who say that you need a low deflection cue are merely trying to sell you one and make themselves $500, once again I state that all you need to do is understand what is happening and get used to what your own cue does with a lot of practise.

Look at Stephen hendry's present cue action where he sometimes plays across the the cue ball and misses the shot by say an inch. Playing across the cue ball is accidently using this pivot technique yet according, to Komakino the pot shouldn't be missed, but it is. On the otherhand if Hendry always played across the cue ball he could allow for this inch, adjust his line of aim and pot the balls as regularly as he used to.

[hotpot]

V max its irrelevant whether with or against the nap , the side will take the same course , the pull n throw will depend on where you are striking the cue ball , the lower you strike the more it will come back on path and continue in the opposite direction .

Also on cut shots , swome shots will need to be hit thinner and some thicker .

[vmax4steve]

V max its irrelevant whether with or against the nap , the side will take the same course , the pull n throw will depend on where you are striking the cue ball , the lower you strike the more it will come back on path and continue in the opposite direction .

hotpot

I'm surprised that a player of your experience and ability doesn't know that against the nap a cue ball hit with right hand side will initially deflect to the left, come back to the right and then go to the left again as it slows down and vice versa for a cue ball hit with left hand side. Still maybe you play on these new very fine cloths where this effect is not so noticeable.