Help choosing a video camera

[cuebru]

Sure would like to improve my game and am hearing video analysis is one way of doing that. I use an older imac computer and would like to purchase a digital video camera. Can any one make a recommendation, also features to look for, that would be good for this purpose.

[Terry Davidson]

I have a Sony HD video cam I bought about 2 years ago at Sear's for somewhere around $670 and now I see the same type of camera from Sony is down around $300 or less on sale (of course add the taxes though). Mine has a 60Gb hard drive plus I can plug in a card and it also will record for 90 minutes on the internal battery but has the option of being plugged in. It also comes with a USB cable so I can plug it right into my computer and it comes up as an external Hard Drive so I can open Kinovea and go right to it and hit 'play' and do whatever I want with the video. I don't have to save it to the computer first, which is very handy.

Any HD video cam with a fair sized internal hard drive should do you fine and getting it at Best Buy or Future Shop or even Sears or Costco and as long as your iMac has a spare USB port you should be good to go. I have 3 computers I can use it with, although they're all PCs but two of them are over 4 years old and everything works fine.

If you're on Vancouver Island, look up Dennett Netterville who lives in Victoria as he will have a video set-up since he is a certified Master Coach (IBSF & WPBSA). I don't think there are any certified coaches on the mainland.

Terry

[poolqjunkie]

Terry, do you use a special software for analysis? Is it a special software that can only be bought from a certified coach?

[Terry Davidson]

Although there is propietary analysis software out there I use 'Kinovea' which is freeware. For video analysis you should be able to advance the video frame-by-frame and it also helps if you can draw lines and circles and Kinovea has all of this and it's freeware.

I also have a trial copy of 'Dartfish' but it's very unuser-friendly and also very expensive to buy at around $4,000 or so. Some of its advantages is you can do side-by-side stuff and also overlay yourself with a pro if you happen to have a video of the pro.

Terry Griffiths also sells a analysis system but I believe that's very expensive too. I helped them with their trials but unfortunately I didn't get a free copy as it is specific for snooker and is very good. I've heard it costs in the 3,000GBP range.

Terry

[cuebru]

Thanks Terry, seems like not a lot of advise available. Judging by your input good memory is important. On the Sunshine Coast the place to shop for cameras is London Drugs so I will take a trip there sometime and see what they hav.
Kinovea does not work on Apples, darn.
It would be almost as much to come and visit you as it would be to use the ferries to get to Vancouver Island so I guess I'll hav to keep shooting in the dark trying to figure out why I miss shots at least until I get a camera which might help.

[DeanH]

Kinovea does not work on Apples, darn.

Not sure but can you not have a Windows emulator on Mac and then maybe the Kinovea may work

[snookergr]

Kinovea only plays my files in half (slow motion) speed no matter what :-(
ever happened to you Terry ?
I play the files as they come directly out of my Sony Full HD camera and they are quite large in size
other than that it is a great software and free

[cuebru]

Thanks DeanH, just did a quick Google and got 15,000000 hits for windows emulator, I'll look into it further. Chances are that my computer won't handle Kinovea anyway since my old mac has only 800 MHz. Also nobody mentioned emulators when looking for Kinovea for mac.
The best I've heard so far for what I would like to do is that a good video editor will give back and forth slowmo and frame by frame viewing.

[cuebru]

Thanks DeanH, just did a quick Google and got 15,000000 hits for windows emulator, I'll look into it further. Chances are that my computer won't handle Kinovea anyway since my old mac has only 800 MHz. Also nobody mentioned emulators when looking for Kinovea for mac.
The best I've heard so far for what I would like to do is that a good video editor will give back and forth slowmo and frame by frame viewing.

[Terry Davidson]

snookergr:

I've never had that problem with Kinovea, with the speed bar I can playback anywhere from 1% to 200% I think it is, but movstly when I do an analysis I use frame-by-frame, which really shows the full story on a player's technique.

cuebru:

I used to use another program called 'Cyberlink DVD' which also gave me slow motion and frame-by-frame but I'm not sure if it's freeware or not. There are a lot of sports video analysis software systems out there at various prices from around $100 to Dartfish at $4,500 and basically you get what you pay for. It is helpful to be able to draw lines and circles when trying to analyse a cue action though as you can see easily how much a player raises the butt on the backswing or drops the butt when he drops his elbow.

It's also handy to see if there's any change in the line of the cue from the address position through the backswing and delivery, although frame-by-frame from directly behind the cue will show the same thing

Terry

[snookergr]

snookergr:

I've never had that problem with Kinovea, with the speed bar I can playback anywhere from 1% to 200% I think it is, but movstly when I do an analysis I use frame-by-frame, which really shows the full story on a player's technique.


Terry

thanks Terry :-)

[cuebru]

Terry it might be a bit crude but suppose I could lay a strip of clear suran wrap over my screen to mark points of interest when using a video editor. Hav you ever videoed from above? I think that would show better horizontal movement of cue action and maybe detect hitting across the cue ball which I think I do sometimes after changing my focus to the object ball.

[Terry Davidson]

cuebru:

You could do that I suppose but you still have the problem of trying to get frame-by-frame.

However, the absolute BEST way to tell if you're cueing straight is this - set up a straight blue from the baulkline (repeat 10 times). Place the camera directly behind and at the same level as the butt of the cue when in the address position (remember to have the camera at least one foot behind the butt so you don't backswing into it). Now either take some white chalk and whiten the end of the butt or else do what I do and use one of those small paste-on rings for 3-ring binders on the end of the butt (we used to call them paper a**holes in the Navy). This will give you better visibility under poorer lighting.

I helps to have good lighting on the end of the butt from behind. I use my wife's photographic lights but even one of those handy little construction spotlights from Home Depot or Canadian Tire will work.

Hope you have a tripod for the camera. If not they only cost around $25 or so.

Start the camera and record 10 long blues this way and then play it back on your computer. I don't know what video player you have but I think Real Player will give you both slow motion and frame-by-frame (but not certain).
'
Just watch for any sideways movement in the end of the butt and most importantly where it occurs. There will be some at the very end of the stroke as your hand hits your chest. Try and do a 'stop shot' with the blue, leaving the cueball where the blue was.

Terry

[cuebru]

Terry that sounds very good and am going to try that with my old analog video cam (hav not bought a new digital yet, still researching) I should be able to get some insight into unwanted moves with, no choice but normal playback mode.

[snookergr]

Terry:
I would also recommend the "splash" player http://mirillis.com/en/products/splash.html which is free, very light on the computer memory, really fast and optimised for FullHD videos. It has the frame by frame option and as I said it loads and plays all videos very fast; you can advance to any point in the video with no delay. Check it out but mind that it is only a "player". I find it very helpfull when I want to quickly check a video and do a litlle "frame by frame" observation in seconds :-)