Using a snooker coach

[coomsey76]

i'd like to know of any coaches in south london/kent area.

John Woods is a really good coach, Here's his website....

http://gone2pot.net/home/blog1.php/home

the 1-10 system

This system has really worked for me, since learning it from Nic, it has bought my game on leaps and bounds!!

[Terry Davidson]

Just for those reading this string...you do not slide your hand along the cloth as that is considered very poor sportsmanship. This means sliding the bridge along the cue and not along the cloth

Terry

[martj]

Yeah thats how i do it, cue onto bridge then slide hand down cue onto table, rather than placing hand on table and adjusting. Thanks for wording it correctly lol.

[Sam-Romford]

Just for those reading this string...you do not slide your hand along the cloth as that is considered very poor sportsmanship. This means sliding the bridge along the cue and not along the cloth

Terry

sorry Terry i am quite lost about the issue of sliding the bridge along the cloth in relation to poor sportrsmanship,
as far as i knew sportsmanship is more related with how you behave/interact with your opponent, referee, audience etc. for example not shaking hands before starting the match/ arguing with referee about respoting cue ball or over a foul, not shaking hands with your oponent to congratulate him/her after he/she made a 147/100 or any bigbreak, or making statements where you show no respect etc i think these are good examples of poor sportsmanship,
but however i am always very keen to learn new things also i am very cautious about sportsmanship as i dont want to be hated by anyone.
could you please explain

[Terry Davidson]

Sam:

A player who slides his bridge hand along the cloth (especially against the nap) will place heavy finger tracks in the nap and on a table with a fairly new cloth and strong nap this not only looks very ugly but it can also throw off slow pots as they roll over the finger marks.

This type of behaviour is considered very poor by most players. When I get a student here who has played pool (no nap on the cloths) and he does this I get a little peed off and try and train him not to do it as I end up having to brush, block and iron the table repeatedly to get the finger marks out

Terry

[armstm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUa4F6yLFOk

see around the 2:30 mark for a good example of ronnie sliding the left hand in a straight line....

[Johnson88]

IMO I've had coaching a few times but I personally don't think coaching helps much because they try and tell you how you should play. Look at Joe Swail, his cue action is so unique and yet coaches tell you that you need to have your elbow straight, your bridge this distance, your cue motion i.e. pause etc...they are trying to teach you to be like them.

I play quite fast paced, similar pace to Ronnie, because I find it comfortable. If you find your cue action, stance, elbow position or anything to do with playing snooker different to the norm, then don't feel the need to change if it works for you. It's good to be different :triumphant:

[armstm]

the other thing i've found with coaching is that its better to do a couple of hours regularly (e.g. once a month) than do a full day every now and again. u slip back into bad habits so quickly. it also fires up your enthusiasm to cue correctly if you do frequent but short coaching sessions.

i've been to see patsy fagan 3-4* with a friend, his rates are 35/hour so its not too expensive for 2 hours. you definitely get benefit of him seeing you more than once. for example he changed my stance around the first time, when i went to see him, my stance had reverted a bit back to old errors but was much better third or 4th time. he is excellent at diagnosing how you miss a shot (side, cueing across, hitting it too fast) and this repeated feedback will get you cueing better imho.

[thelongbomber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUa4F6yLFOk

see around the 2:30 mark for a good example of ronnie sliding the left hand in a straight line....

Yes, it probably does cause wear on the table and grief for table maintenance as Terry mentions, but I would guess that for the top pros it's unconcious and not something they do intentionally or with poor sportmanship in mind.

Anyways, about coaching....

It's always worth it. If, however, you are lucky enough to get mentorship and guidance from a better player or something who has played the game at a high level (like many of the retirees and seniors at my club) and that is a regular at your club, even better. I'm lucky enough to have progressed over the past 10 years with the help of a few blokes that understand technique, form, cue action, and the mental side of the game quite well and have all played at a level beyond my best. A few of us, spar regularly so they give me pointers in practice, and match play regularly. I'm lucky to have that setup but I know a proper certified coach can maker a markeable difference in my game and get me moving quickly towards a higher level of play.

I haven't seen a snooker coach on short visits/weekends before, but knowing about teaching in other disciplines, the better and more experienced coaches will try to make you follow a "system". That system is first designed to highlight your skills (and lack thereof) based upon a "best practices" model. The best practices being WPBSA form and technique based on human body mechanics, experience, and knowledge. There are some things which just plain have been proven to work (like having your head steady, over the cue, in line with the elbow, etc). Initially some of the coaching may be just the basics which you could probably coach yourself if you had the video equipment, mirror, slow motion footage, and understood the nuances of stance and body mechanics. But of course, most of us don't, so the coach always has the upper hand on this.

Then, on subsequent visits and getting to know their students better, coaches can start to pick out and highlight subtle form recommendations, like pause, bridge sliding, bridge length and so on. Most proper coaches have a vast arsenal of knowledge and experience to draw upon - either with students or with the game. Some coaches have never played the game at a high level, while others have. Dell Hill I don't believe was ever a high ranked snooker player, but he is one of the best around. Terry has played the game at it's highest level and is also a great option. Same with Terry on the forums here who was near the top ranks in Canada and went to UK (I believe) for a stint also and has a vast ocean of knowledge in all aspects of the game too.

There is only one problem with seeing a coach for a short visit: because they can't see your progress over the years, they can only guess on how you came to this point, breaking 67 max and the odd 30 break. The more time you can spend with them, the more they can help you progress and show you the proper way to play and improve. In the end, you have to do the hard work and make the progress. They may push you but it should be to create progress, not discourage you (trust me, many of those are still kicking around in clubs). Be prepared to see a possible dip in your level of play during a transition to a higher level as that can sometimes happen.

But then, you look at Alex Higgins who by all accounts, probably never had a coach for his form and technique and yet was one of the best ball strikers ever to play the game

P.S. John Higgins has a patented sliding hand on many of his shots.

[ferret]

Just thought I would put my 2 pence in to this thread.

I want to talk about World Snooker official coaches and just put out a gentle word of warning, a piece of paper saying that someone is a World Snooker Coach does not guarantee that the coach is any good!

It is my opinion that The World Snooker coaches course is pretty much useless in assessing the ability of a true Snooker coach, the course is there to provide revenue for those that are running it and to make it look like World Snooker are actually trying to help our grass routes Snooker when it is not.

As an example there is a coaching course running today and tomorrow at The South West Snooker Academy, you would of thought that after the course has been run that people would get their certificates to say they have passed and I would think that this would of also been after some kind of assessment of their ability but a picture posted on Fcaebook today at about 2pm of all the people taking part with their certificates just goes to show what a front this coaching course actually is.

I have actually spoken to several people who have taken this course over the past few months and have been gathering their comments, one person saying "It is £800 for the authorisation to wear The World Snooker badge on you t-shirt, they do not asses your ability to actually coach a person, they do not teach you anything, it is a glorified seminar that you get a certificate to say you have attended at the end of it."

But please do not take this that all World Snooker certified coaches are sub-standard, there are some very good coaches out there who have taken this course like the above mentioned Andrew Highfield who is a well respected coach with many successful students.

When you are seeking a coach you should be looking for feedback from players that have used their services and where you can actually speak to the players before booking up any lessons with the coach.

[circle]

I think that coaching is vital for any player who wants to improve their game. I have often heard players say that they had reached their 'natural playing level' and that they could improve no more. Many years ago - just after I made my 1st century - I decided to rebuild my technique. I had coaching off several well known professional snooker players - but without doubt, Frank Callan was the best. He kept it simple and it worked for me. I feel some coaches over complicate they game and as Ferret said, just because someone is qualified it doesnt necessarily mean they are competent.

[147wolf]

I have to disagree with you ferret about the World Snooker Coaching Course being a glorified seminar, i was on that course in Gloucester and it was a very intense two day course and really well structured, there was multiple tests and every person that attended that course was assessed on all the information given by Terry Griffiths, Steve Davis and Chris Lovell.

The reason the photo was taken on day one was because Steve Davis was only available for that day and was obviously needed to be present on all the photographs, as every one on the course was well aware that if they did not fully understand all the coaching aspects they would have to return for a 2nd or 3rd time until they fully understood all the course details presented by Terry Griffiths, as explained in the coaching course details, also present on the world snooker website...

Everyone had time to spend with Terry Griffiths and Steve Davis, I managed to get about 40 minutes one to one with Terry Griffiths talking about coaching and thoughts about the game, invaluable information that i can now pass on to any person i coach.

As for World Snooker Coaches not helping Grass Routes snooker, well i am quite shocked by that because Chris Lovell has done some amazing projects to get kids off the streets and into playing snooker and getting them to enjoy the game and helping them improve, also supporting them with Maths and English through the projects, there are many articles and video's on the internet to back this up.

[Terry Davidson]

147wolf:

I would tend to agree with ferret here. The WPBSA is more teaching coaches about the business end of coaching and there's not very much taught regarding technique.

For instance, I have taken the IBSF Master Coach training from Nic Barrow and it was 10 x 8-hour days and went very deep into technique. I have also taken the Terry Griffiths Matchroom Senior Coach training and that was 5 x 8hr days (shortened as I was already an experienced Master Coach via Nic).

The WPBSA itself has said their planned Level II Coach training will further enhance a Coach's ability in the technique area. Their aim is to first get these coaches running businesses and getting more player interest out there and I suppose also earning some revenue from the coach training. I would suspect their Level II training will be somewhere between 3-5 days worth from some very good trainers like SD or TG but it will also cost a bit more than the Level I so somewhere between £1,200 - £1,500 or so.

Rightly so, the time of SD or TG is worth the money and they are worth a premium I would think.

Terry

[tommygunner1309]

I was on SD and TG"s first WS coaching course and I will tell you what a WS snooker coach is good for.

He will be able to take absolute beginners and teach them the basic rudiments of playing snooker. He will be able to give you a good set up that allows you to see the difference between good and bad habits and the virtues of striking the cue ball centre (or plain) ball.
If you are a 30 to 40 break player or above it would be better if you see someone like Nic Barrow, Del Hill etc. A WS coach will not be able to teach you advance techniques, but will be able to provide you with some useful practice routines. He will also teach you the importance of structured and well thought out routines.

After completing the course, I complained to Chris Lovell that I did not feel well equipped enough to coach good to advanced snooker players, which some of the other coaches agreed with me, and a structured plan has been devised to give us follow up training - the first being from 11am to 4 pm at the WS academy in Sheffield on Sunday 22nd April. These further follow ups will continue the work done by SD and TG and will further the knowledge of the coach.

Let me stress that if you have never played snooker before, A WS coach will set you off on the right road - but if you have just knocked in a 135 break, I wouldn't touch you with a barge pole - I just might ruin your game.

As it happens, I went on the course not to be able to coach Ronnie O but to improve my game, which it has done by several levels.
But again, all WS coaches are different. Lionel Payne for instance, was already a qualified coach when he did the same course as me and I believe coaches one of the great Lady snooker players - but I cannot remember which one - so don't put all WS coaches in one box

[tommygunner1309]

Oh yes - Andrew Highfield is not just a WS coach. He is an ex snooker pro who was a Grade A coach before the SD and TG coaching course was thought of. Highly respected and currently coaching James Hill who attended Q school to become a pro.