cant find the centre of the white. please help

[perpetualboredom]

I'm looking forward to Terry's (or Nic Barrow's) views on this....especially Dott's aiming for pots. I was always
told hit centre ball whenever possible and try to keep it nice and simple

Not quite the same, but I was watching a local billiards pro a few weeks back noticed he played almost all cannons with check side. He said afterward that billiard players tend to play this way.. reason being a slight amount of unintentional running side throws the cue ball where as check doesn't. He made 114 in a 1 frame game of 200 up so I'm thinking it works!

[Particle Physics]

I'm looking forward to Terry's (or Nic Barrow's) views on this....especially Dott's aiming for pots. I was always
told hit centre ball whenever possible and try to keep it nice and simple

Yep, rings true to me too. I have been told on here not to use side unless it helps position, otherwise, you overcomplicate the shot and can miss because of too much side and throw. I've seen players I know miss pots they should have got because they always play side when they can, even when a simple middle ball shot would result in good position. Then they've missed out on a good size break. They even use side when potting balls directly into a pocket when the white won't even touch a cushion after contact with the object ball. I find it bizarre.

Steadie Eddy Charlton got by without playing side on the ball at all. I'm not saying his game was ideal, but one can have too much of a useful tool IMO.

Occam's razor; when two or more methods result in the same objective, choose the simplest method. Drop the side when unneeded.

[vmax4steve]

i am a right handed player, right eye dominant. highest break 65. 18years old.
my practice partner tells me that i line up the shot and address the white ball about half a tip to the left. to me it looks like centre but when i leave the tip there and bring my head up i can see that my tip is in fact to the left of centre.

if i line up to a spotted white with the red spot at the centre of the white it looks like the red spot on the white is to the right of centre.

i would appreciate anyones advice greatly, thanks

Think about how you address the cue ball, are you looking at the object ball or the cue ball when getting down into the address position ? If you are looking at the object ball and then find that you are addressing the cue ball off centre then look at the cue ball instead and see if it makes a difference. If you look at the cue ball anyway and if changing to look at the cue ball makes no difference then I would suggest having your eyes tested.

[vmax4steve]

Yep, rings true to me too. I have been told on here not to use side unless it helps position, otherwise, you overcomplicate the shot and can miss because of too much side and throw. I've seen players I know miss pots they should have got because they always play side when they can, even when a simple middle ball shot would result in good position. Then they've missed out on a good size break. They even use side when potting balls directly into a pocket when the white won't even touch a cushion after contact with the object ball. I find it bizarre.

Steadie Eddy Charlton got by without playing side on the ball at all. I'm not saying his game was ideal, but one can have too much of a useful tool IMO.

Occam's razor; when two or more methods result in the same objective, choose the simplest method. Drop the side when unneeded.

Seeing as the cue ball throws off line and then comes back onto line to strike the object ball at the correct spot to pot it I would have thought that a bloke whose user name is Particle Physics would understand that the cue ball, because it has been thrown and is arcing back, is in fact coming from a different direction than it would on a plain ball shot, something like playing the pot from an inch or two to the side of where the cue ball actually is, so it can and does in fact help with position when using side when the cue ball doesn't hit the cushion after contacting the object ball. This is the effect that all top billiards players have always used and by some top snooker players too, Alex Higgins, John Spencer and Willie Thorne to name three.
Steady Eddie missed out on both snooker and billiards world titles through his reluctance to use side but you're right in that with todays ultra fine cloths it isn't needed half as much but how many of us actually get to play on such cloths

[Particle Physics]

Seeing as the cue ball throws off line and then comes back onto line to strike the object ball at the correct spot to pot it I would have thought that a bloke whose user name is Particle Physics would understand that the cue ball, because it has been thrown and is arcing back, is in fact coming from a different direction than it would on a plain ball shot, something like playing the pot from an inch or two to the side of where the cue ball actually is, so it can and does in fact help with position when using side when the cue ball doesn't hit the cushion after contacting the object ball. This is the effect that all top billiards players have always used and by some top snooker players too, Alex Higgins, John Spencer and Willie Thorne to name three.
Steady Eddie missed out on both snooker and billiards world titles through his reluctance to use side but you're right in that with todays ultra fine cloths it isn't needed half as much but how many of us actually get to play on such cloths

I see where you are coming from Steve w.r.t. to Willies shots, that were designed to make the white ball trajectory move off the object ball at unnatural angles (compared to middling the white) that would benefit position, but I've seen mates play shots with side, even when playing with side resulted in a worse position (after arc/throw) or no better position than hitting the white ball in the middle. That's pointless and detracting.

The problem some folk obviously have, is they get so used to playing shots with side, that they just do it out of habit regardless. They think everything needs a touch of side, the way some players will always use bottom or top; it's an obsessive thing.

You're faced with a regulation, dead straight pot on the black, which is on its spot, into the pocket to win a frame. Would you play it plain ball or play it with side? I know one chap who would play it with side without even thinking!

[alabadi]

They even use side when potting balls directly into a pocket when the white won't even touch a cushion after contact with the object ball. I find it bizarre.
.

I use this only on one occasion when i have a shot that is just off straight, i mean if you bend down and look through cueball to OB ball in a straight line it will probably hit the jaw.

i use possible 1/4 to 1/2 a tip depending how far away this because if i tried to aim for the spot to pot i will over compensate and miss the shot, this is because the different between it being dead straight and not is so minimal i find it hard to judge, now i know a lot will say practice and practice and you will eventually get it , believe me i have and i will miss more than i pot.

however using a little bit of side and aiming for centre throws the cueball just enough to pot. it works for me and i am much more successful at this type of pot now, so i will continue as long as it works.

i do believe some pros use this method on long pots just off straight too just to get the angle, so i guess its a common thing. i wouldn't use it on other shots and rarely use side at all even for position coming off cussions, i am not comfortable yet and don't have enough knowledge to impliment it to good use.

Alabbadi

[nrage]

Not quite the same, but I was watching a local billiards pro a few weeks back noticed he played almost all cannons with check side. He said afterward that billiard players tend to play this way.. reason being a slight amount of unintentional running side throws the cue ball where as check doesn't. He made 114 in a 1 frame game of 200 up so I'm thinking it works!

I assume by "throw" he meant the effect off the cushion, and not the throw effect on the white after contact when using side - otherwise his statement is madness

As running side widens the angle, and there are no additional forces opposing it, a little unintentional running side will almost always have a visible effect. Check side on the other hand is opposed by the friction on the cushion and the travel of the ball, so more check side is required to get the same effect as the running side shot, therefore a little check might have no visible effect.

Good tip

[Particle Physics]

I assume by "throw" he meant the effect off the cushion, and not the throw effect on the white after contact when using side - otherwise his statement is madness

As running side widens the angle, and there are no additional forces opposing it, a little unintentional running side will almost always have a visible effect. Check side on the other hand is opposed by the friction on the cushion and the travel of the ball, so more check side is required to get the same effect as the running side shot, therefore a little check might have no visible effect.

Good tip

Mate, there are people playing side to deliberately throw the white off and back onto the line of the shot. They're playing a swerve shot to pot a ball that isn't snookered and they're not doing it to get position off a cushion using side. Crazy.

[throtts]

I use this only on one occasion when i have a shot that is just off straight, i mean if you bend down and look through cueball to OB ball in a straight line it will probably hit the jaw.

i use possible 1/4 to 1/2 a tip depending how far away this because if i tried to aim for the spot to pot i will over compensate and miss the shot, this is because the different between it being dead straight and not is so minimal i find it hard to judge, now i know a lot will say practice and practice and you will eventually get it , believe me i have and i will miss more than i pot.

however using a little bit of side and aiming for centre throws the cueball just enough to pot. it works for me and i am much more successful at this type of pot now, so i will continue as long as it works.

i do believe some pros use this method on long pots just off straight too just to get the angle, so i guess its a common thing. i wouldn't use it on other shots and rarely use side at all even for position coming off cussions, i am not comfortable yet and don't have enough knowledge to impliment it to good use.

Alabbadi

I know this shot very well and practice it and come across it very often. When I am on the black and it is just off straight ( pink end ) I hammer them in at pace with tip just below center striking ( stun ) to gain position ( for example ) on an available red to carry on the break. That shot really tells you how your cueing and how good your technique is, my percentage is very high and get I pissed if I miss it. Of course you can power screw back off the black if no ball is in the way but the power stun is a lovely shot to execute. The just off straight pink to the middle pocks are harder than the just off blacks, imo.

On both shots, if your not accurate on my super tight Star then the ball not dropping..

[AKashyap]

Remove all balls from the table and try to hit just the cue ball with the same speed but perpendicular to the cushion ... You could keep it on the green spot and try to hit it perpendicular to the yellow side cushion, and come back exactly behind the green spot on the green side cushion .... Then keep it on the brown spot, and hit it on the black top cushion exactly behind the black spot. See if you can touch the cue ball on the bottom cushion exactly behind the brown spot .. This helped me make my shots straight sometime back. Hope it helps you as well !

[snooker beast]

If you have a break of 65 despite this flaw then you've probably learned to compensate for the off center striking, which will likely mean it will be difficult to correct and will mean you get worse before you get better. So, if you're serious about improving then it will be a bit of hard graft, but definitely possible I would expect.

So, from the sound of things you have a sighting issue likely cause by your head position, bridge hand position, or a combination of these things. I don't like the idea of finding the "dominant" eye and simply putting the cue under that, instead I would recommend trying to find the best position for your eyes by testing various positions and alignments (sometimes a slight turn of the head is enough).

So, step #1 pick a pocket and use the edge of the leather as an exact line of aim/spot to aim at. Get down into your stance aiming at this spot. Have your practice partner line the spotted white up exactly center ball for you.

Step #2 experiment. Close first one eye, and then the other. Does the cue look lined up with either eye by themselves? Does one eye look better than the other?

If you find one eye looks better than the other then you have just discovered which eye you have been using dominantly when getting down on the shot and picking a head position etc. It is this eye which is on, or closer to the line of aim than the other. It is this eye which is getting a better view of reality and it's this eye we need to move the other eye closer to.

If neither eye looks right don't worry because you've probably just got each eye on either side of the line of aim and therefore neither is in the perfect position by itself. Always remember that you don't aim with just one eye, you aim with both and you're trying to find the position which is best for the combination of both eyes.

In either case, you want to start by turning the head slightly left or right and seeing what effect this has on what you're "seeing". When you turn the head, make sure you keep it upright with both eyes on a horizontal line, neither lower/higher than the other. Turning the head actually moves both eyes slightly closer to the center/line of aim and may be all you need to get the perfect view. Often placing the left cheek on the bridge arm shoulder (right hander) turns the head into a better position, so try that.

If the head turn doesn't help, then try moving the head sideways by placing the cue on either side of the chin. Move the cue fractions and move the whole cue (don't start cueing across the line of the shot). You might find it easier if your practice partner holds the cue in place on the table and you move your head.

As you move your head try to find the position which looks "right", try closing each eye in turn and comparing the view until you find the position where with both eyes open it just looks "right".

For me personally the cue should sit slightly to the left of my chin (right-hander) which in turn means I prefer a less square stance than recommended. A square stance usually puts the cue center chin or to the right (right-hander) whereas a more side on stance will give more room around the chest to place the cue center to left of the chin.

So, once you find your ideal head position it may require a stance alteration to make it comfortable.

Last, but not least, practice walking into your new stance/position repeatedly until it becomes natural. This is the part which takes time, and which will vanish under pressure until you have it well and truly drilled in.

Best of luck.

wow i just found this post and im ahving the same problem, i have tried what you mentioned here but still having the smae problem

[snooker beast]

All good advice from nrage. Here's one or two other items you can try.

First of all, if you can 'see' the centre of the white with your head up then nrage is definitely right and it's your set-up causing you to pick a spot off-centre on the white when you get down into the shot.

Try placing the cue behind the white centre before you get down into the address position and don't let the cue move as you get down. Take up the address position and DO NOT adjust the hips to either side (in your case it would be moving the hip very slightly to the right which will take the tipo of the cue to the left a bit).

The other thing you can try is to get into the address position normally and then raise your head off the cue sufficiently so you can 'see' the centre of the white and actually cue from that position for awhile and then drop your chin straight down on the cue and see if you are either adjusting your hips or else moving the grip hand away from your body. Do this with the tip of the cue against the cueball and watch it on the cueball and see if it moves. If it does, I would again suspect you are moving the hips when you get into the address position.

Terry

thank you for the great post, i have been visiting many coaches and tried explaining my sighting issue but no one understand and cant fix. i have exactly the same problem as this guy on this post. but i have also tried your method and changed my stance, leg position, head position, chest position, played cue off chest, off chin. to right chin, to left chin but nothing works ;(

any suggestions?
tnx

[vmax]

thank you for the great post, i have been visiting many coaches and tried explaining my sighting issue but no one understand and cant fix. i have exactly the same problem as this guy on this post. but i have also tried your method and changed my stance, leg position, head position, chest position, played cue off chest, off chin. to right chin, to left chin but nothing works ;(

any suggestions?
tnx

How about a bent cue that looks straight but isn't

[evilwizard]

I'm not the original poster, but just wanted to say thankyou to nrage. Because of your reply I had an epiphany and realized how dumb I've been. For ages now I've had a problem where I was shooting across the ball. My cue tip was in the center of the white, but my back hand and bridge hand were not in alignment, so I was coming in at a slight angle. I read your sentence that said 'caused by bridge hand position' and immediately went 'OMG!!' then I went and did some practice cue ups on the dining table and realized that when I get down, the crease between my thumb and index finger on my bridge hand is slightly to the right of the center of the cue ball. I know it may seem incredibly obvious, but I've seen so many videos that say to make sure the cue is right in the center of the cue ball, but none that say to make sure the _bridge hand_ itself is right in the center of the cue ball.

So, from the sound of things you have a sighting issue likely cause by your head position, bridge hand position, or a combination of these things. I don't like the idea of finding the "dominant" eye and simply putting the cue under that, instead I would recommend trying to find the best position for your eyes by testing various positions and alignments (sometimes a slight turn of the head is enough).