Full ball cannon on the pink

[ace man]

Imagine a following very common scenario. Blue on its spot, ready to be potted, nice angle. You just need a full ball cannon on the pink which is also on its spod to achieve a good spread of the reds below.
Well, today I tried about 50 of those shots in practice with just blue and pink. Could not believe I had so much difficulty getting the cannon right. Only a few times have I been able to make fullish cannon on the pink, most of the time I got it too thin or missed by a ball width. Some pots were missed too. No wonder my spreads from the blue are so bad. How do you guys get on with a shot like that?
I also find it really difficult to keep body and head still if I'm not certain about cueball position. Somehow I just cannot concentrate fully on the pot and make position #2 priority, never have been able to. Any pointers?

[jarcher]

Full ball cannon on the pink

When I'm playing that shot, it's a 3 stage process, I get down on the shot as if the canon isn't an issue, without moving my aim, I then think about where on the white I need to hit and at what power, normally just below centre, once I'm happy with where the whites going, I then forget about the cannon and go back to focus on the pot.

My main problem is if I'm playing side with any pace, that I may need to readjust the angle if aim as a power shot in this position will often cause a miss.

I would try to land on the pink dead weight first through stuns etc, then gradually work up a little more power, trying to put the pink close to the black spot, right up to full on lashing at it lol

This way, you will get to know where you need to hit the white at various pace to obtain that full ball cannon

Hope that helps

[Terry Davidson]

You shouldn't use ANY side with this shot. You just hit the cueball centre-ball (horizontally) but in the vertical line of centre-ball the height depends on the angle of the pot on the blue but should be anywhere from just below centre to almost a deep screw for those sharper angled pots on the blue.

[nrage]

Have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0OaehjEDA

Ok, it's not about your specific situation, it's not even about how to achieve various white ball angles. What it is about, is how to stay down on the shot, so that your results are consistent, allowing you to better learn from the mistakes and eventually get the result you want. It's applicable to any positional shot but will help with your situation as well.

So, next time you practice your shot remember to stay absolutely still on the shot before, during and after delivery of the cue. Follow the white with your eyes only. I would keep the starting white position constant and use what you learn from each attempt to adjust the position you strike the white. Repeat the same white position until you get 3 full-ish cannons in a row, then move the white and repeat.

[ace man]

I did not use side on this particular shot, not needed at all. But I could not hit exact height that I wanted. Most of the time I put too much screw/stun, hence missed the cannon. Also, I should point out that I was trying relatively thick pots, three quarter ball cut or so,s not thin cuts. Thinner cuts would require a bit of screw but also would not need to be hit as hard to spread the reds. In fact, to me it feels like this narrow angle on the blue requires just slightly above centre hit, i.e. more of a slight stun run through. At least that's how it felt when I made the correct cannon. With pure stun and not too think of an angle on the blue, if the cueball is following exact tangent line (90 degree relative to object ball), it should just slightly miss the cannon on pink on its spot, right?

[ace man]

Have a look at this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6h0OaehjEDA

Ok, it's not about your specific situation, it's not even about how to achieve various white ball angles. What it is about, is how to stay down on the shot, so that your results are consistent, allowing you to better learn from the mistakes and eventually get the result you want. It's applicable to any positional shot but will help with your situation as well.

So, next time you practice your shot remember to stay absolutely still on the shot before, during and after delivery of the cue. Follow the white with your eyes only. I would keep the starting white position constant and use what you learn from each attempt to adjust the position you strike the white. Repeat the same white position until you get 3 full-ish cannons in a row, then move the white and repeat.

Thanks Nrage, I've seen this video before and actually the angle is very similar. Good reminder. Unfortunately staying absolutely still until the balls stop moving and yet playing demanding position is super difficult for someone like me who switched to snooker after many years of US pool only (that's my favourite excuse). It's getting better but whenever I see those pros on TV I cannot help but to admire the stillness on the shot without any tension whatsoever. My admiration means I'm not there yet obviously.

[Terry Davidson]

ace man:

It also sound to me that you might be dropping your elbow early in the delivery and thus the tip is moving on the cueball and the spot you hit will be different from your address position. What nrage says is correct...pick one spot for the cueball, ideally somewhere between 1/2-ball and 3/4-ball and learn how to do that first and then move the cueball to a different angle (not much).

If you have a 1/4-ball cut on the blue then it requires more bottom as compared to a 1/2-ball pot. On a table with a good cloth and good speed the 1/2-ball cannon to the pink requires a hit slightly below centre, 3/4-ball may be centre-ball and 1/4-ball will be lower again and actually the 1/4-ball is the hardest cannon to achieve accurately with 1/2-ball being the easiest.

Staying still on the shot from the time you get into the address position all the way through to well AFTER you hit the cueball is Rule #1 for snooker. Usually, no matter what technique a player has if he can stay absolutely still on the shot he will improve. Rule #2 is accelerating through the cueball and driving the grip hand to the chest.

If these two rules are followed and achieved a player WILL improve, no matter what else he does (although not tightening the grip until the end of the delivery is also a big helper).

Terry

[ace man]

As usual, Terry's advices are gems. I wish I started playing snooker regularly sooner, it's only been 3 years so far. Still, after next 3 years, I fully expect to hit a ton in a match. My current max is 66, so just 34 more points to go...

[Sidd]

Indeed Terry's words are pearls of wisdom for all of us here...

I have been playing the game for about 10 years or more now however I used to play without having a solid technique, pre-shot routine and without knowing the basics of technique... So i learnt the game through trial and error all by myself and through practice and during that timeframe i had made a 2 breaks of 55 and 57 ... then i left the game for a couple of years and then when i restarted i joined this group and have been improving on my technique and all other aspects however amazing to note is the fact that now that i have a solid technuqie and routine and am loaded with lots and lots of tips and advice ... i am not being able to develop a big break not even in 50's .... still cant figure out why .... hmmmm ... but still trying!

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

Don't worry, the big breaks will come and if you are delivering the cue consistently straight they will come sooner rather than later.

If you can video yourself, then set up a long blue 'stop shot' with the camera over the top pocket and have from the top of your elbow down to 6" in front of the cueball in the frame. Play about 10 of these stop shots and then use Kinovea to check just two things. Using the frame-by-frame feature, watch the tip of the cue as it contacts the white (the frame before the white starts to blur) and see if you are hitting at exactly centre-ball. It's very easy to see.

Then back up the video and watch the shaft/butt of the cue over the leather of the green pocket and see if there's any sideways movement over the leather, which is a very good point of reference. I use this method with my students and there's no need to draw lines, just watch for sideways movement of the butt or tip.

Then back up the tape again and look for any head movement at all. This can sometimes be very difficult to control, especially if it's become a habit and it still is my biggest problem as I lift my head a bit during the backswing and that will translate to a right-to-left delivery of the cue because my shoulder is involved in the delivery right from the start. When I control the head movement on the backswing my delivery is very straight and my potting improves dramatically, but it takes a lot of will power to ensure I deliver with JUST the elbow and not any shoulder, especially with power shots.

If you do see sideways movement it can be caused by tightening the grip before the strike or else some head movement during either the backswing or delivery. Also watch your hips and see if they move sideways at all in the delivery. You have to be able to keep the cue just laying in the grip until after the strike and if you do this it usually eliminates the sideways movement. If you use an ash cue also look for the chevrons turning (in your case to the left) between the address position and the end of the delivery. If the chevrons don't turn at all then that's perfect but even if they turn perhaps 1/8th of a turn but after the strike then you should still be OK.

Once you've confirmed consistently straight cue delivery (let's say 95% of the time or so) then there should be no reason why you don't start making bigger breaks.

Terry

[Sidd]

Sidd:

When I control the head movement on the backswing my delivery is very straight and my potting improves dramatically, but it takes a lot of will power to ensure I deliver with JUST the elbow and not any shoulder, especially with power shots.

Terry

Terry: Thanks for the great advice. I will see if I can manage the camera and try to capture myself from both angles and see for myself frame by frame and notice the things you mentioned. I am sure this will further fine tune things for me.

The above comment I quoted however has me thinking on another aspect now: I do think now that when I learned about the elbow drop on follow through from you I checked myself in the mirror and since I noticed that I do drop the elbow naturally and hence never cared anymore about it. However, now that you have mentioned this in the above comment I am forced ot think that yes perhaps I am using my shoulder for the drop and not the elbow alone. Yes yes indeed I am, i just got up and tried and noticed that at the end of the delivery my elbow drops due to the shoulder drop really.... this maybe limiting my progress? How to get rid of this ? and how can the elbow drop without the shoulder? cant imagine how???

Also I have noticed that sometimes my grip hand upon delivery touches the chest ok but sometimes i feel it getting mingles with my shirt in a way that it bothers me and if i m wearing a loose t shirt it sort of catches the side cloth of it from under the chest and makes me disturbed... any significance of this?

[Chris Bedford]

Full ball cannon on the pink

Nic barrows book says to try this shot and cannon into the pink so as to pot the pink in both pockets then try and make full ball contact to send the pink past the blue spot. Hope this helps.

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

Don't get me wrong on the elbow drop. All I mean is a player should deliver the cue with the elbow only until after the strike and then with power shots the elbow will likely drop but well after the strike.

The danger is some players (myself included) start to drop the elbow prematurely and thus get the shoulder muscle involved in the delivery before we strike the cueball and this will normally take the cue off line unless a player has a perfectly straight elbow drop (like Ronnie for instance, who does drop his elbow early in the delivery).

I have to ensure at the address position my elbow is up as high as I can get it and when I return to the address position during the delivery that my elbow is still up high. A loose grip helps with this too.

Terry

[Sidd]

Terry: All right ok sorry I misunderstood and got confused by the comment. it is very much clear for me now and yes indeed I am pretty relieved and happy as well because my elbow remains solid without dropping till i hit the cueball... So nothing for me to worry about in this case... my elbow drop in the final backswing for about an inch or so and then I have noticed a severe drop say a few inches at the end of the delivery because you see you have been coaching me to have a good follow through and in practicing that I have developed this and now you know when for instance i have a three quarter blue in the middle and i am on the wrong side and i need ot go in and out of baulk three cushions for the next red .. this is not an easy shot but it has become one of my favourites given that i can play it perfectly almost every time due to the reason that the elbow drop in the end of delivery really helps in getting that extra follow through .. some people think this has to be a power shot but it isnt that really and its lovely to play all you need is a little side and follow if i am on the yellow side i will go with follow and left hand side and on the power scale it wont be more than p7 but with full follow through the cue ball can even go in and out of baulk up to the red even behind the black spot...!!!

Anyway thanks again .. so i have one thing less to worry about