Deep screw shot

[Sidd]

DandyA:

The correct answer to how low you hit the cueball is 'as low as you can without mis-cueing'...however that answer doesn't help anyone to achieve deep screw. The answer I would go with is no more than 5mm off the cloth from the bottom of the tip (or in other words a 1/2-tip width as you mentioned).

I also see you have the wrong impression of when you should use deep screw so let's get that corrected too. First of all deep screw means hitting the cueball very low, as low as you can but there is no inference of the power used when you use the term 'deep screw'.

The other problem some people have is they think there is a difference between how to play a deep screw shot and how to play a stun shot as they feel they are different hits. Stun is the same as screw with the exception of 'top stun' run-through shots.

When you decide a positional shot requires screw then you hit the bottom of the cueball and if you think it requires something less that deep screw then you raise your bridge in order to raise the tip on the cueball. When you decide you need to use screw you should ALWAYS use deep screw since you can use less power to screw the ball back compared to if you hit the cueball a little higher (which is actually stun and NOT screw if we were to be precise).

What happens with too many players is they think they are hitting the cueball very low but when they actually strike the cueball the tip is up higher on the cueball than they intended and they don't get that nice screw effect. This can be caused by dropping the elbow early or else not lowering the bridge sufficiently and raising the butt of the cue to get to the bottom of the cueball.

When you practice your screw shots, lower the bridge ONLY and do not raise the butt of the cue. Ensure the bottom of the tip is very close to the cloth and then start out with real easy and gentle shots, like say the pink on its spot and the cueball 1ft or even less behind the pink and just hit the pink near dead weight with deep screw and see what happens (I think you'll be surprised if you've driven through the cueball - driving the hand to the chest). As you get comfortable with doing this move the cueball back further from the pink so you can increase the power a bit but still concentrate on having that tip on the bottom of the cueball near the cloth and driving through the cueball.

Last exercise is to place the cueball 2ft behind the pink but at a bit of an angle so when screwing back the cueball will head towards the green pocket (or yellow if a lefty) and your challenge is to pot the pink and go in-off into the green pocket. You may be surprised at the angle of the pink pot since if you are using deep screw correctly it will end up being near to half-ball and the cueball should arc after it hits the pink.

Terry

Excellent post Terry... Wonderful explanation of more than one technical points. In particular, the thing about screw and stun is really something many players need to know. Some people would naturally drive on screw but not on stun having this in mind that they need the cue ball to stun and hence develop this wrong habit... If you stun with a nice follow through what you learn is that a stun shot does not always need to be banged... one can have nice smooth slow stuns and once one learns this aspect positional play improve miraculously.

what you said about the pink and CB in green pocket is what I learnt by chance the other day.. in reverse really I was taking the green placed somewhere between its spot and brown spot and had two reds clustered near the pink.. The green was somewhat half ball against my CB. While thinking the shot out I thought I should stun the green with power and take the straight line and go to the reds passing the blue and disturb them. I took the shot and yes it happened however I missed the reds by a fraction... end of break but the shot was really nice to play.. Now While playing I think I did not stun it I in fact screwed it or my subconscious mind made me screw it... It happens with me sometimes and if you rely on experience; it works for you on occasions.

I have a couple of mates who find it hard to screw and always really love to see my screw shots. When they play screw they would really bang the OB in pocket and move the white back a few inches or say a foot but when I take the similar shot medium power than theirs and move the CB like a weightless object; they are inspired. I always tell them that what you play in fact isnt screw its a power stun you need to hit lower... one of them understood me point better than me and yesterday he screwed the pink from green spot with rest and went to the black on half power shot and was laughing out of joy !!!

But mostly, they would not screw and unintentionally do the power stun instead...

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

The other error too many players believe in as the gospel is that stun and screw use a different delivery and that you don't follow through as much with stun and use more power. That is really nonsense.

If you have a red 1ft from a top pocket and your cueball is on the baulk line and the shot is straight in and you want to stop the cueball (as in a 'stop shot') on every table I've ever been on I hit the cueball down as low as I can, or in other words with deep screw. This hitting the very bottom of the cueball can also be used on any stun shot as it means the player can use a lot less power and therefore have much more accuracy.

The only pure stun shot on the table is when hitting the cueball dead centre or else the stun-follow shot when hitting slightly above centre.

A straight in pink from one foot behind where you want to stop the cueball and hold the spot is better hit softly with deep screw than harder with just below centre ball and risking the cueball running on a couple of inches. All players have to do is watch Ronnie when he is in the balls and playing a stop shot or a deep screw shot for position. He uses no power at all.

Terry

[Sidd]

Sidd:

The other error too many players believe in as the gospel is that stun and screw use a different delivery and that you don't follow through as much with stun and use more power. That is really nonsense.

If you have a red 1ft from a top pocket and your cueball is on the baulk line and the shot is straight in and you want to stop the cueball (as in a 'stop shot') on every table I've ever been on I hit the cueball down as low as I can, or in other words with deep screw. This hitting the very bottom of the cueball can also be used on any stun shot as it means the player can use a lot less power and therefore have much more accuracy.

The only pure stun shot on the table is when hitting the cueball dead centre or else the stun-follow shot when hitting slightly above centre.

A straight in pink from one foot behind where you want to stop the cueball and hold the spot is better hit softly with deep screw than harder with just below centre ball and risking the cueball running on a couple of inches. All players have to do is watch Ronnie when he is in the balls and playing a stop shot or a deep screw shot for position. He uses no power at all.

Terry

Hmmmm very interesting indeed... I think I have been doing so not knowingly and only once one of my mates commented that Sidd you hit rather low for a stun shot... Now I ma confident that I am doing it correctly because I know for sure that while in the balls I never hit too hard and can easily play with the white to my liking on slower stuns or else screws with the stun affect for positioning... !

One thing important for me on this point Coach: Rarely this happens to me and I have no answer to this. I am taking a nice and slow screw of black or red just to move the CB a few inches for the next ball but when I play the shot I miss the ball and my cue upon delivery seems like it should have stopped but it kept going forward and my mates call this 'the slide effect' or they say you were like playing as if you did not want the cue to stop and since its a slow shot they feel i sort of let it slide and it seems to to be loose and sliding forward kind of a motion... Are they wrong and I am right, i just missed cuz I missed and its not the delivery? Would this happen with slow shots with follow through .... i cant seem to be able to explain properly hope you got what I meant ???

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

Even with very good players one of the problems I've seen is on very low power shots they don't complete the stroke, or in other words don't drive the grip hand through to the chest. I also see this a lot when a player is playing off the cushion and they 'stab' the cueball and don't follow through.

I have always advocated ALWAYS driving the hand through to the chest on ALL shots, no matter what the power (even though I can't seem to do it myself every time as sometimes I don't think about it, especially when shooting off the cushion.

Not counting dropping the elbow the amount of follow-through a player can achieve can be seen in the address position as the distance between the front of the grip hand and the contact point on the chest. This is normally around 5in or so and then dropping the elbow can add 1" to 3" to that depending on how severe the elbow drop is.

When playing a low power shot (in my opinion) there is no reason to have a long backswing nor is there any reason to have to drop the elbow on the delivery, so the cue comes back perhaps 4" and then goes through (slowly) a maximum of 5" however the player must accelerate through the cueball for all shots or otherwise he will grip the cue too early in an attempt to slow it down and this will usually generate upper body movement and take the cue off-line.

Another thing I've noticed is most of the very good pros when faced with one of these very low power shots will often hit the shot with a little more power using a stun shot and I believe this is to ensure the grip hand punches through to the chest. I've found it's very difficult to properly complete the delivery on a very low power shot and I practice this by trying 'shooting the spots' but only to get the cueball as close to the top cushion as I can and this would be classed as a P1 (in P1 to P10 power graduation).

Terry

[Sidd]

Sidd:

Even with very good players one of the problems I've seen is on very low power shots they don't complete the stroke, or in other words don't drive the grip hand through to the chest. I also see this a lot when a player is playing off the cushion and they 'stab' the cueball and don't follow through.

I have always advocated ALWAYS driving the hand through to the chest on ALL shots, no matter what the power (even though I can't seem to do it myself every time as sometimes I don't think about it, especially when shooting off the cushion.

Not counting dropping the elbow the amount of follow-through a player can achieve can be seen in the address position as the distance between the front of the grip hand and the contact point on the chest. This is normally around 5in or so and then dropping the elbow can add 1" to 3" to that depending on how severe the elbow drop is.

When playing a low power shot (in my opinion) there is no reason to have a long backswing nor is there any reason to have to drop the elbow on the delivery, so the cue comes back perhaps 4" and then goes through (slowly) a maximum of 5" however the player must accelerate through the cueball for all shots or otherwise he will grip the cue too early in an attempt to slow it down and this will usually generate upper body movement and take the cue off-line.

Another thing I've noticed is most of the very good pros when faced with one of these very low power shots will often hit the shot with a little more power using a stun shot and I believe this is to ensure the grip hand punches through to the chest. I've found it's very difficult to properly complete the delivery on a very low power shot and I practice this by trying 'shooting the spots' but only to get the cueball as close to the top cushion as I can and this would be classed as a P1 (in P1 to P10 power graduation).

Terry

Thanks Coach. I still am not sure if I explained my problem properly as I am still confused how to explain. But What I highlighted from your response in bold; linked to my situation, might be the solution for me. I indeed forgot this aspect, this came in my game by watching ROS a lot of times and I sort of unintentionally developed this. I know the reasons for short and long back-swing and the difference in technique (long; power through speed) and (short; power through follow through and consistent speed) as I long ago asked this from you and you replied to me in depth.

Taking this advice Coach I will switch back to the old school method of power determined by back-swing length. I think it will sort it out for me. Yes I do have a long back-swing even on slow shots where the cue tip touches the V... I think that is why delivery is not controlled enough and I get that sliding swinging cue effect in delivery, as pointed out by others and felt by me. As Griffiths mentioned and Hendry does it; I will get back to back-swing length equals level of power required technique; now that I think of it I am sure this will solve my problem.... thanks a lot again; excellent excellent advice!!!

[throtts]

Sidd:

Even with very good players one of the problems I've seen is on very low power shots they don't complete the stroke, or in other words don't drive the grip hand through to the chest. I also see this a lot when a player is playing off the cushion and they 'stab' the cueball and don't follow through.

Another thing I've noticed is most of the very good pros when faced with one of these very low power shots will often hit the shot with a little more power using a stun shot and I believe this is to ensure the grip hand punches through to the chest. I've found it's very difficult to properly complete the delivery on a very low power shot and I practice this by trying 'shooting the spots' but only to get the cueball as close to the top cushion as I can and this would be classed as a P1 (in P1 to P10 power graduation).

Terry

Amazing post, Terry.

I need to address the last paragraph especially. I float the pots a bit too much (maybe).

The first is typical too of me too,,, except the very good player bit..haha..

[Sidd]

Amazing post, Terry.

I need to address the last paragraph especially. I float the pots a bit too much (maybe).

The first is typical too of me too,,, except the very good player bit..haha..

So i am not alone in the floating boat eh well for you and me Throtts; what Terry mentions is the best solution. Complete shot no matter what the power; and for me who uses long back swing all the time; I have started practicing shorter back swing or else back swing length according to the power required... This would help me complete the shot with follow through and also help me attain control since this technique requires you to accelerate through the white...!

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

Actually, the best stroke for snooker (again in my opinion) is to have a longer backswing but the player has to be able to learn how to control that longer movement positively. I have to confess I myself use the backswing length that is proportional to the power required and this sometimes leads me to having to short a backswing and too abrupt an acceleration.

I've found the slower I make the backswing, especially on those lower power shots, that I drive through the cueball much better.

A longer backswing enables the player to adjust the acceleration and if he can do that then he will be much more consistent as he will be using a lower rate of acceleration on every shot and thus be more accurate because of less body movement. The only way I can control a long backswing is to ensure I do it very slow also, so I guess the correct answer is still the same, the backswing must be slow enough so a player can positively control it and keep it absolutely straight. Length of backswing should be determined by the player himself through experimentation and experience during solo practice.

Terry

[Sidd]

Sidd:

Actually, the best stroke for snooker (again in my opinion) is to have a longer backswing but the player has to be able to learn how to control that longer movement positively. I have to confess I myself use the backswing length that is proportional to the power required and this sometimes leads me to having to short a backswing and too abrupt an acceleration.

I've found the slower I make the backswing, especially on those lower power shots, that I drive through the cueball much better.

A longer backswing enables the player to adjust the acceleration and if he can do that then he will be much more consistent as he will be using a lower rate of acceleration on every shot and thus be more accurate because of less body movement. The only way I can control a long backswing is to ensure I do it very slow also, so I guess the correct answer is still the same, the backswing must be slow enough so a player can positively control it and keep it absolutely straight. Length of backswing should be determined by the player himself through experimentation and experience during solo practice.

Terry

Very right Coach. I went to the club yesterday and used the shorter back swing on low power shots and not a shot I missed... I think my longer backswings were a little hasty and hence not accurate, as you mention. My problem 'the floating cue' came in from longer back swings on low power shots in a way that whenever i played the shot i sort of felt the cue not stopping and going fowrard on follow through slowly and hence dancing (not really but sort of not arrow straight) and the reason must have been quicker back swing... Also i got your point that on long back swings during delivery since the power has to be determined by adjusting the force; on low power shots i was playing perhaps too low a power to induce such an effect... I think that is the only possible answer??? whereas with shorter back swings on low power shots since the power was coming automatically from the amount of backswing hence my potting improved and there wasnt any sliding floating effect? is that right? I think it is...

I shall do both in solo on low power shots and see what suits me best.. they both have a con and pro i.e. short backswing no issue about power adjustment its automatic however consistency isnt there and you have to be aware of the length of backswing you need and hence eyes off the pot can happen.... longer backswing full consistency on all shots however you have to be aware of the power adjustment and hence eyes off the pot ............

AAAAhhhhhhhhhhhh..... what a game this is...snooker.... and this is also the reason why I am so madly deeply in LOVE with her.. She is a romance that is hard to get to she wont come to you nicely off her own will but you have to persuade her show her that you love her completely and are made up for her and even then she may or may not come to your arms and sit silently looking in your eyes forever; nah! she will always have her way with you.... in my young age; having studied science Physics was my favourite subject and that adds to my love for the devil called snooker she has so many manners and traits that in order for you to get to her; you have to really prove to her that you really really desire her for life ...!!!

But still; she is my darling and shall continue to be so...!!!

[Terry Davidson]

Sidd:

Pretty soon you will be trading in your marriage bed for a snooker table and sleeping with your cue!

Terry

[Sidd]

Sidd:

Pretty soon you will be trading in your marriage bed for a snooker table and sleeping with your cue!

Terry

ha-ha Welll said; good one this... after reading my words above, i too feel the same.

Well if ya ask me coach, one of my favourite snooker quotation has been "If I had to make the choice between staying married nad playing Snooker, Snooker would win"

I am just glad my wife isn't here on this forum

[kevclem2]

I've found timing is he most important when it comes to screwing the white. The best people at screwing the ball always have exceptional timing. And it goes without mentioning good technique...

[MinnesotaSlim85]

Well I wouldn't mind being able to show off with such shots too!

The biggest screw I've seen in my life was from the top player in my country when he was playing in his own club where the cloth is nice and fast, but it's slower than the tv table cloths Trump is used to playing! The cue ball was in the balk area and there was a dead straight red about 5-6 inches away from one of the black pockets - he pots the red and the white comes back to baulk area, but it has so much energy that it jumps off the main board and crosses the baulk line again positioning him perfectly for a straight brown to the green pocket.

This sounds unique enough considering he isn't playing on a TV table, but the most amazing part is that the man plays with a pool cue. That's right, he is a very good player, he makes tons from time to time, but he just doesn't like snooker cues. I know this sounds incredible doing such a shot with an 11 mm tip, but the man is obviously very talented, you need perfect cue action for something like that.

Hi, just spotted your thread, I find having no fear helps! in regards to ripping the cloth lol.. alot of my friends tend to not follow through enough with there cues :snooker: all I can say it's just practice, timing and speed through the white ball etc mate...this shot I did some years ago was with a 9mm tip cue..I've had the cue ball bounce off the baulk rail and up past the blue spot before on the same shot, still not a bad effort

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOkv1ifL6cU

[Dozza19792]

Its all in the follow through.....the trick is to make it long without scooping through......difficult to explain, but simple if u get my jist.

[Master Blaster]

Probably the most difficult shot in snooker to master.
The ability to perform such a shot is a sign of brilliant cue action.
What should one practice in order to be able to screw back from a large distance - wrist action, timing, follow through? I'm interested to see how many here can do it and maybe give some advice to those who of us who have problems with screw shots in general.

I can screw up and down the table on a 6811 T and Pottr/Byrom/J6/OM can as well I think. It is in the cue action but it's also about stance (so your body is comfortable and relaxed) and set-up, opposite shoulder, bridge to ball length, lots of things. And of course, what is good for one player may not be good for another. Players have to make the journey of 'finding' their cue action. This takes a couple of years of practice and experiment to discover and lots of determination and patience. All the greats have made the same journey, Ronnie, Jimmy, Stephen Lee, etc.

I have found that foot-in-line limits power because the set-up limits free delivery under the chest. Foot pointing out and cue right under the nipple appears to lead to more freedom and power, even though that sounds counter-intuitive. Foot-in-line masters such as Hendry/Davis/Higgins all suffer ltd power compared to the great cueists like Lee/White.

When you deep screw, the cue feels lighter not heavier as the grip opens and you drive the cue through. But it's not a muscular drive, even though muscles are involved. It's letting the cue go but under control, so that the speed of delivery increases but with more efficient effort. Some folk flick the wrist, some don't, that's horses for courses, something to experiment with. Some have cocked wrists that stay firm, others are more flexible at the wrist, variable. What everyone does is accelerate the cue and go through the ball. But you don't hit the ball hard intentionally, you will hit the ball harder as you carry more force but it doesn't feel hard, not like a massive stun shot. You must not tense any muscle, since this will deaden the contact and lead to stun/screw type of shot. Most people tense up too much and fear missing the shot, or concentrate so much on hitting the bottom of the ball as hard as they can that they play a stun shot and miss the pot. If you tense up, your mind will be anxious and you will begin to consciously worry about the shot. With deep screw you must be brave and fear nothing and say, oh well, f*** it, let's have some fun and wow these cats. Enjoy the shot and entertain, show off. Trump/Robbo get the buzz out of it, do the same as them.

Bruce Lee had brilliant acceleration and I think he could have had a great cue action. Free, loose acceleration is what it's about.

'I said empty your mind. Be formless, shapeless, like water. Now you put water in a cup it becomes the cup, if you put water in a bottle it becomes the bottle, if you put water in a teapot it becomes the teapot. Water can flow or it can crash. Be water my friend.'