Another sighting/dominant eye question

[Terry Davidson]

Dandy:

That is an excellent link and I would recommend anyone concerned about their aiming and sighting carefully read it over as it appears the author has done a lot of research and assembled a lot of data on both aiming and sighting.

Well worth the read

Terry

[j6uk]

Interesting link but, like me, did you think that the nic guy with that ott setup on the line of aim was over the top? I know he didn't learn to sight that way

I think this is a good read from Dr Dave Alciatore's superb website ...

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/eyes.html

[alabadi]

alabadi:

When I used the laser level device I had it wedged into the top pocket but I also placed a coin under the one end. I place the cueball on the yellow spot and adjust the laser so it is pointed at centre-ball horizontally and just below centre-ball. With the cueball there it's easy to adjust accurately.

With my method you need a helper though which may be difficult, but I would get down into the address position behind the cueball with my bridge adjust for just below centre-ball and aim at the laser emitter on the level which is a small black circle similar to the imagined BOB. Then staying in the address position I had my wife remove the cueball and I could confirm the laser was bisecting my tip and running up the cue.

As you said though I couldn't get a picture of it as the laser is red and my camera wouldn't pick it up. I did some research on green and blue laser pointing devices and the low power ones are not expensive at all running less than $20 (about 14GBP) in some cases and if I get my finger out I will order one of those and see how I can set it so it will be stable and hit the centre of the cueball.

Terry

yes Terry, i myself just aimed the laser at the cuetip which was laying on the table over the yellow spot and pointing at the laser, i adjusted until i could see the laser beam on the cuetip.

i then just picked up the cue and aimed at the laser beam, i could see from the video that the laser did hit my tip slightly right so not sure if this test proves a lot, but at least i can say that i can aim at what i see.

Alabbadi

[DandyA]

Interesting link but, like me, did you think that the nic guy with that ott setup on the line of aim was over the top? I know he didn't learn to sight that way

well it was the text from Dr Dave I found interesting ... I didn't actually watch any of the linked videos but I have just now watched the Nic Barrow one and thought it was short and concise for him ...

whilst I respect Nic Barrow as a world renowned coach and he clearly knows his stuff, I personally find his videos normally difficult to watch as he seems to have a motto of "why take 5 minutes explaining something concisely when you could rabbit on for an hour or more and sell it as a boxed set of DVD's" ...

no rudeness to Nic intended, I'm sure many people like his coaching style ...

[j6uk]

Yes I agree.

He's also worked hard, knowledgeable and got some gem info amongst his documented work.

I didn't actually watch any of the linked videos but I have just now watched the Nic Barrow one and thought it was short and concise for him ...

whilst I respect Nic Barrow as a world renowned coach and he clearly knows his stuff, I personally find his videos normally difficult to watch as he seems to have a motto of "why take 5 minutes explaining something concisely when you could rabbit on for an hour or more and sell it as a boxed set of DVD's" ...

no rudeness to Nic intended, I'm sure many people like his coaching style ...

[itsnoteasy]

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I saw a photo in our club the other day of Chris Small, cueing square on, centre chin, I tried to take a pic of it to post up but I couldn't do it, but I did find these on the net, on pic two and three cue looks very slightly left of centre but head is bang on straight and nose is bang on line with eyes , the first pic everything looks perfectly centred , I don't know at what stage of Chris career these were taken, I'm sure he will know.
Woohoo it worked I'm some sort of computer genius .

[Terry Davidson]

On that first one, is the object ball on the lightshade?

Terry

[chrissmall147]

Terry come on mate has some compassion. That was me struggling away with my neck and I was even struggling to sight the ob at this stage of my career so I had to start forcing the eyeballs up as far as I could to try and focus in on the ob. Not easy I can assure you. That neck has cost me about half a million since I quit so no laughing matter.

Cheers Chris small

[Terry Davidson]

Chris:

My apologies as I thought that picture was taken early in your career before the onset of the neck problem.

My comment was meant to highlight that it doesn't really show the same thing as the other 2 photos.

Terry

[chrissmall147]

Hi terry

I know you didnt mean any harm mate I was just playing around but I must admit it still hurts today the way I left the game.

Cheers Chris

[DerekW]

I've considered responding to this thread about 5 times now and backed out not wanting to start an argument with anyone of the several 'forgetaboutit and play' brigade...

But seriously I can't understand the non objective and dismissive comments being made. Do we not play a game based on HAND/EYE coordination amongst other important aspects such as feet positioning, weight distribution etc? If this is true then to say don't worry about your eyes seems rather ridiculous. We spend time learning our grip and finding what works for us, we spend time learning our feet positioning and finding what works for us, we spend time learning our weight distribution and finding what works for us... but according to some here we should just not be concerned about our eyes????

Now maybe I'm biased due to my recent experience and maybe my circumstance is unusual - eyesight being as unique to each of us as much as our weight distribution, arm length, hand size, etc - but had I not got to the point of utter frustration with my inconsistent game, and had I not happened across some online info about eye dominance, and had I not experimented and found where my sighting issue was based, I would still be in the throws of my utter frustration about my inconsistent game.

So comments like 'just put your head down and play the game' seem pretty out of line to me and maybe will seem the same to anyone else who is in the throws of frustration and want to learn how to improve and find what works for them. Personally I find that having frustration in my head is way worse for my game than learning and finding what works for me.

To add a little more insight into my particular situation I am now 41 years old, I have come back to the game after about 20 years of not owning a table. In my younger days I played well and was consistent having found a comfortable grip, stance and action. Now 20 years later I come back to the game with my original grip, stance and action but now I'm inconsistent. So what has changed? 20 years of working in the computer and IT industry slowly developing worse and worse eyesight... and a verifiable increase in dominance in my right eye.

Steve wrote, 'Why they do this I don't know but I have the feeling that they are keeping the cue centre chin and using a certain stance and head position because they believe it to be the correct way to play'

This is exactly why I was persisting to the point of frustration because this is the way I used to play and surely it will improve and I will get back to my old consistency... I wonder how long I would have had to continue in that frustration before 'everything just worked itself out and the brain made the necessary adjustments in a game improved by confidence????

I'm glad I found the info and suggestions I needed to once again fall in love with this game... It took me two days to look into all this, another two days of putting Steves advice into practise and I now have my confidence back, my consistency is on the improve, my stance feels very natural and easy and I'm loving running drills and working on my positional play I can't wait for out for friends to come over so I can put all of this into practise in a game or 20.

Sure beats being consumed with not understanding why I couldn't seem to get the angles right like I used too. But of course, your experience may differ from mine...

Thanks Steve.

Cheers,
Mick

Thank you, Mick, for a very informative reply that - along with Steve's excellent advice - had raised my spirits tremendously.

Like you, I have returned to the Game after a very long absence during which time my eyesight has deteriorated severely. Having played snooker to a fair standard for many decades from boyhood (with never a concern about sighting or even a thought about dominant eyes) I experienced the same difficulties as you and am trying hard to overcome them. Sadly, at 76, I have perhaps less time than your good self to put Steve's guidance into practise but I welcome the challenge and will - pardon the pun - give it my best shot!

Discovered late in life, I know, but what a wonderful forum with so many helpful contributors and much good advice!

[Terry Davidson]

Although I don't agree with the dominant eye theory that says you should have the cue running under it (my personal experience is I sight with my left eye because the vision is better due to surgery but my right eye is the dominant one and always has been) I can understand players who feel this is the right way to go to achieve better sighting.

But if you are going to do it then get hold of a SightRight device (or make one up, it's simple) and determine first which eye/cue position gives you the straight line with the device. (Not the sightright cue device, the device that sits on the table). You might find the correct eye alignment is somewhere in between the 2 eyes but not necessarily right underneath the dominant eye. Everyone is different.

You might not naturally sight with your dominant eye (like me and a lot of players) but at least the device will show you absolutely where the cue should be aligned to get the solid line and that alone will give you extra confidence, or at least allow you to say 'OK, I know my alignment is right but I'm still feeling uncomfortable with my sighting' and you will start searching for the root cause of the problem if it wasn't sighting alignment.

The reason is simple. If you do the dominant eye test it will tell you which eye is your dominant eye and then you will play around with your set-up until you feel you have the eyes aligned the way you want. However, you might also drop into a better set-up when changing things or on the other hand you may make your set-up worse and it will take awhile for you to adjust.

Just remember, give whatever change you do a real good test of at least 2-3 weeks to ensure it's the way to go but whatever you do if it gives you more confidence in your sighting then go with it since increased confidence is the key here.

[DerekW]

But if you are going to do it then get hold of a SightRight device (or make one up, it's simple) and determine first which eye/cue position gives you the straight line with the device. (Not the sightright cue device, the device that sits on the table). You might find the correct eye alignment is somewhere in between the 2 eyes but not necessarily right underneath the dominant eye. Everyone is different.

Thank you, Terry. Forgive my ignorance of the device but, as matter of interest, can the SightRight be used anywhere, for example, at home without a snooker table (at an appropriate height, of course), or must it be used on a table in conjunction with cue and object ball?

[Terry Davidson]

Thank you, Terry. Forgive my ignorance of the device but, as matter of interest, can the SightRight be used anywhere, for example, at home without a snooker table (at an appropriate height, of course), or must it be used on a table in conjunction with cue and object ball?

All you need is a surface that's at the right height (around 2ft10in) but I would suggest you try and set that up in front of a mirror. For the initial assessment you will need another person there since the far side of the device has to be covered and then you get down into the address position and use the near level of the device as the cueball and address the line that's on there and focus on the furthest point of the line you can see.

Then the other person takes away the paper covering the far line and it's your INITIAL sight of the far line or lines and you're looking to see if the darkest line is the one that's right on the line of aim. If it isn't then you have to turn your head first to the right and then the left until you find the spot where the far line is darkest and on the line of aim.

Then look in the mirror and see where the cue is in relation to your eyes (is it centre-chin, more under the right or more under the left?). That will be your ideal eye alignment spot and you have to look in the mirror and get a good look at it so you can replicate it in practice on a table.

Then you have to make a decision on whether you want to do this with just turning the head or do you want to keep the head looking straight ahead and change your set-up to get the cue to the desired position. Turning the head is usually the best way to go because then you are not altering your natural set-up.

To some this might seem a little detailed and anal retentive and to be honest I only recommend this path if the student is really troubled by the idea that they are not sighting correctly. In my experience I've generally found the sighting to be fine and the real reason for missing pots is a failure to deliver the cue straight, which is the hardest thing of all to do consistently. This problem can be quickly discovered by a simple video and some analysis and really it's better to correct that problem first and then go to work on the sighting alignment.

[DerekW]

All you need is a surface that's at the right height (around 2ft10in) but I would suggest you try and set that up in front of a mirror. For the initial assessment you will need another person there since the far side of the device has to be covered and then you get down into the address position and use the near level of the device as the cueball and address the line that's on there and focus on the furthest point of the line you can see.

Then the other person takes away the paper covering the far line and it's your INITIAL sight of the far line or lines and you're looking to see if the darkest line is the one that's right on the line of aim. If it isn't then you have to turn your head first to the right and then the left until you find the spot where the far line is darkest and on the line of aim.

Then look in the mirror and see where the cue is in relation to your eyes (is it centre-chin, more under the right or more under the left?). That will be your ideal eye alignment spot and you have to look in the mirror and get a good look at it so you can replicate it in practice on a table.

Then you have to make a decision on whether you want to do this with just turning the head or do you want to keep the head looking straight ahead and change your set-up to get the cue to the desired position. Turning the head is usually the best way to go because then you are not altering your natural set-up.

To some this might seem a little detailed and anal retentive and to be honest I only recommend this path if the student is really troubled by the idea that they are not sighting correctly. In my experience I've generally found the sighting to be fine and the real reason for missing pots is a failure to deliver the cue straight, which is the hardest thing of all to do consistently. This problem can be quickly discovered by a simple video and some analysis and really it's better to correct that problem first and then go to work on the sighting alignment.

Much food for thought there ... Many thanks!