Another sighting/dominant eye question

[j6uk]

I think you've taken the wrong end of the stick. If Nic would look at that post they would not see anything in it but the words of a fellow player 'who too was being bashed up' so, cool your jets!
I rate nic, of course The Frank. As for Chris Small 'its hats off'

j6uk

Just because Nic didn't make it into the top 100 doesn't mean he isn't a great coach. Frank Callan only ever won his county title once but he is regarded as one of the best coaches ever. I'm not certain if Del Hill ever won anything. Chris Henry?

I consider myself a decent coach and I only ever won a county title and a few other tournaments as an amateur and I never did turn pro, just like Frank.

On the other hand, Chris Small made it into the top 16 before medical reasons put him on the sidelines and he teaches the same methods as Nic does.

So please don't make a blanket statement that if a coach hasn't been a professional world champ or at least a top pro then he can't be much of a coach, as I take exception to that remark.

Were did I say this??

Terry

[Manu147]

I think it all comes down to the individual player what he believes in, the legendary frank callan was an advocate of the "Master eye" as he called it, being over the shot more, pj Nolan, and the crux of Stephen feeneys sightright coaching is the same principles, others like nic barrow are not as stringent, though nics turning the head over the rest routine until you see a straight line is in many respects the same result, I would say that nearly all players are unaware of where exactly where their cue is relation to their eye, but I agree 100% with vmax, if players whilst down on the shot do not see things lining up and therefore are unsure about aiming, then it certainly would be in their interest to know which eye is dominant as this could be a simple solution in some cases.
I don't really agree with terry that this could ruin their setup, as I think vmax is talking about weaker standard players, who are in need of sighting help anyway, and not referring to century break players, who are seeing the shots more consistently anyway, because in theory you can have a player who with a blindfold on can move the cue backwards and forwards perfectly straight, but without being able to see a straight line when down on the shot, this would create a problem for him, or a "parelex error" as Stephen feeney calls it.

[j6uk]

Good post manu, Sighting is something you start to understand in your first few coaching sessions. The art of cueing and straight cueing is obtained through time and specific practice. Advanced players would always work on cueing but alignment issues pop up often..

[throtts]

The more important aspect of all of this is aiming correctly and then getting straight down on that line of aim. If a player does that consistently he will deliver the cue straight and even if he is not sighting under his preferred eye, if he observes the object ball his brain will get the feedback loop it needs and the sighting will agree with the aiming.
Terry

High standard snooker play comes mainly down to good "aiming" coupled with a good drop down on the cue, so you beat me to it, Terry and I know Steve you are going to probably say that when aiming you are using your preferred eye without knowing it and yes, maybe that is the case. Myself, I am right eye dominant, however, when my chin hits the stick it is central down the cue because I have already selected the line standing up on aiming and I am confident that I on that correct line.

I think this thread gone way over the top,, IMO, guys..

[Manu147]

Good post manu, Sighting is something you start to understand in your first few coaching sessions. The art of cueing and straight cueing is obtained through time and specific practice. Advanced players would always work on cueing but alignment issues pop up often..

Yes, alignment issues do pop up over the years as eye sight changes, Stephen Hendry as a young boy cued centre chin, because young boys at 10 or 11 have not yet developed a dominant eye until puberty generally, but Hendry won world titles favouring his right eye, though I must stress when I say dominant eye in players, this in most of the cases refers to the point somewhere between the nose and the dominant eye, though in extreme examples like Jamie jones its out a lot futher, and in ALL top players this same head position is always mirrored when they use the rest as they are subconsciously always choosing the same straight sighting line.

[j6uk]

Sorry terry, I don't see that aiming correctly is straight cueing, a new one for me. If a player consistently on the line of aim, why would they deliver the cue straight?

vmax:
The more important aspect of all of this is aiming correctly and then getting straight down on that line of aim. If a player does that consistently he will deliver the cue straight and even if he is not sighting under his preferred eye, if he observes the object ball his brain will get the feedback loop it needs and the sighting will agree with the aiming.

Terry

[nrage]

nrage says that he sees the tip of the cue pointing at the centre of the cue ball with both eyes, but that is not my point at all. My point is that the cue will look to be pointing at the centre of the ball with the submissive eye also because both eyes are focussing on this point, but only with the dominant eye will the cue lie on the line of aim, the submissive eye will show the cue coming from outside the line of aim to point at the centre of the cue ball and this is very noticeable when closing the dominant eye when down in the stance.

Incorrect. Because the cue is under neither of my eyes if I close either eye then the cue appears to come from outside the line of aim. With both open, however, it all looks right. If you are cueing under one eye then it will look as you describe, but only then.

[nrage]

If it's working for Mick and Alabadi it can work for others too.

Something is working for them. I suspect that the act of concentrating on aiming (more than they previously were) is the real cause of the improvement in both cases. When I lose concentration or get lax in my pre-shot routine, this is the biggest cause of missed pots, by far..

[nrage]

You know I sometimes get the feeling that just because something doesn't come from Nic Barrow it doesn't get taken seriously.

ROFLMAO .. it's ironic isn't it, Mr "your high break is only 20 something what kind of advice could you possibly have". Don't you wish people would judge advice based on it's merit alone, or try/test/evaluate it for themselves before judging it

FYI.. I will be trying your advice on Monday when I can get on the pool table at work. I try almost every piece of advice I hear, because that is the only way you can honestly judge it.

[laverda]

Something is working for them. I suspect that the act of concentrating on aiming (more than they previously were) is the real cause of the improvement in both cases. When I lose concentration or get lax in my pre-shot routine, this is the biggest cause of missed pots, by far..

To use phrases you seem intent on repeating... incorrect, not true, thanks for trying to help but you're totally wrong about this

I have not changed my pre shot routine at all. All I have changed is my head position prior to and continuing as I go down into the stance. I am not taking longer on any shots as I had always been a fairly instinctive player as younger bloke when it came to seeing the angles. The feeling that my instincts were now off having come back to the game years later is what had led me to find where the problem lay.

So to reiterate for those who are only browsing sections of this thread without reading every post... I am taking no extra time in pre shot routine, I am once again trusting my instincts because I am seeing the correct line of aim and am sighting right... something I literally felt immediately on following Steves advice.

I know I have been asked to video my progress and perhaps I will eventually but at the moment I want to focus on my improvement without the pressure of 'performing' lol... I'm not doing all this to compete, there no leagues or coaches where I live (Southern Country, New South Wales, AUSTRALIA) but I am doing it to regain the enjoyment of the game I once had. Suffice to say I have been making steadily higher breaks of late and I want to see that grow in continued consistency.

Sorry if my experience flies in the face of any or all of the confirmed experts that have chimed in on this... babies and bath water do come to mind...
Mick

[itsnoteasy]

Laverda, if it works for you good luck with it, everything doesn't work for everyone, but when coaching(let's face it coaches may only see people once in their lifetime)the easiest way is to have a set standard approach as it will fit most folk. I find what VMax says very interesting and we definitely use one eye to put our cue online (well I do)as I have checked it ,the only thing I differ from is I don't think you need to turn your head, I tried this and saw absolutely no change, so I think my brain just sorts out the view but if it works for you good luck.

[nrage]

To use phrases you seem intent on repeating... incorrect, not true, thanks for trying to help but you're totally wrong about this

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Thanks for correcting me.

Note that I said "I suspect that", as in I was only guessing at the reason for improvement and not stating things about you as if they were fact.

I have not changed my pre shot routine at all. All I have changed is my head position prior to and continuing as I go down into the stance. I am not taking longer on any shots as I had always been a fairly instinctive player as younger bloke when it came to seeing the angles. The feeling that my instincts were now off having come back to the game years later is what had led me to find where the problem lay.

I would be interested to see video of before and after if you have it. What did you change exactly? And what knock on effects do you think this causes?

Prior to getting down are you turning your head to place your dominant eye nearer the middle, or have you moved your body over to get it on the line of aim? As you get down, are your feet in the same position as before, or have they moved as a result? Are you now concentrating on dropping directly down, or were you always doing that? Does your cue run along the same place relative to your head, or has it shifted? Or, do you turn your head when down (the same as prior to getting down?).

The devil is in the details.. and I'm interested in them.. if you don't mind sharing/repeating them.

[Terry Davidson]

j6uk:

Of course there are a lot of other things involved but the pre-shot routine is critical and a lot of players come down on the shot from the side of the bent leg. After that of course there is solid bridge, solid stance, alignment, loose grip, slow backswing, front and rear pauses, gradual acceleration on delivery and the drive through the cueball.

But if the player gets down into the address position aligned correctly and on delivery is able to return the cue to the exact address position at the time of strike he should be cueing consistently straight.

Terry

[alabadi]

VMax do the finger test thing keep both eyes open ,turn your head to favour your dominant eye still with both eyes open, does it move?, when I tried this it didn't make any difference)

i don't think this should tell you anything, with both eyes open the image of your finger over the object is through the dominant/Master eye. when tilting the head the dominant eye still places the finger over the image no matter which way you tilt the head, what i would say is that i found when the head is tilted towards the weaker eye the image becomes slightly sharper that's all.

the only way to test a dominant eye is to close one eye, when the dominant eye is closed the finger should shift, by closing the non dominant eye the finger should still be over the object.

for me that's only way to tell which eye is dominant or which eye does the brain use to focus on an image/object

alabbadi

[alabadi]

Something is working for them. I suspect that the act of concentrating on aiming (more than they previously were) is the real cause of the improvement in both cases. When I lose concentration or get lax in my pre-shot routine, this is the biggest cause of missed pots, by far..

all i can say that when i tilt my head i see the image much clearer. i have also found that doing this while standing has helped me when getting into my stance and down on the shot to have less conflict. i have a lot less shifting around or getting up than i use to.

for now all i am concentrating on is trying to get my setup right to allow me to get down consistently on the line of aim, i feel doing this is helping me.

i would also add i have not moved the cue position at all, its still more or less central for me, all i have done is tilt my head to the right (dominant left eye)

Alabbadi