Nic Barrow's latest gadget.....

[jrc750]

And don't forget Les, that snooker is probably the hardest game in the world to master !
But do as suggested, just have a handful of balls on the table at once

[itsnoteasy]

Cheers Dean, I didn't realise how much thought went in to the shaping of the pockets, I have only played on three types of tables our clubs that don't seem any wider but accept balls a lot easier, a star table (which I didn't know was one till after) which felt not as if the pockets were narrower as such but the jaws were square, and the one up at Chris Smalls, which was far too fast and tight for me lol, I just wasn't up to it. Any angle in the middle and I couldn't even see the opening lol. The black pockets after a while I got a little bit used to ,but not great, but that was my fault as I'm rubbish nothing to do with the table.

[lesedwards]

[QUOTE=DeanH;747987]I see Les has replied


definitely not a stupid question
obviously to create the layout of a pocket there are many dimensions to be taken into account, many radius from multiple positions, etc, etc.
Also depends on which organisation's template you follow (WPBSA, IBSF, etc.) where you have differing dimensions.
So, the dimension "across the fall" is the tangent at the "start" of the "hole" of the pocket, and the dimension is the distance between the cushions. (see Corner Pocket Layout with dimensions.jpg)
Then for example you have the dimension across the pocket opening at its narrowest, this is measured further "in" the pocket where the cushions become parallel. (see IBSFCornerMin.jpg)
My question to Terry was whether the "5" was a typo and where this dimension was to be measured.
Also 3 9/16 across the fall seems to be a tad large to all the templates I have here, where the largest seems to be 3 6/16.
This subject is a minefield as well as a can of worms

Yes Terry's was a typo, if not no wonder I can make everything on his table.....LOL with the IBSF Templates Terry has once you hit the fall of the slate the cushion goes straight back from there so the pocket never gets any narrower which is the way they are suppose to be. I think what Terry told me was the IBSF actually changed their template a couple years ago and made them a touch wider so right around 3-1/2" as you can see on yours they are 3-3/8". Mine where 3-1/4" but i have them out to 3-9/16" but I am not sure if I screwed them up when sanding them. The top part of the rubber where you have the little square edge should continue around the complete radius as this helps the ball hug to the cushion which they call the under cut. With mine I had to sand so much off to get the size that there is not much under cut left and the bottom of the rubber had nothing left to take off.

[lesedwards]

Cheers Dean, I didn't realise how much thought went in to the shaping of the pockets, I have only played on three types of tables our clubs that don't seem any wider but accept balls a lot easier, a star table (which I didn't know was one till after) which felt not as if the pockets were narrower as such but the jaws were square, and the one up at Chris Smalls, which was far too fast and tight for me lol, I just wasn't up to it. Any angle in the middle and I couldn't even see the opening lol. The black pockets after a while I got a little bit used to ,but not great, but that was my fault as I'm rubbish nothing to do with the table.

LOL the more I play on my table the tighter the pockets get until there looks like no Black pocket.....LOL I really won't know how my pockets are until I have somone like Terry or Cliff play on it. The guys that I have over play maybe twice a year and all play on pool tables with bushel baskets for pockets. That I know is another big problem as I have no real competive matches except when I go to our Qualifiers. I play against my two so sons but after about 5 shots the colours are all bunched up down by the baulk line so no wonder I cannot make position. I played with Terry at his place after my coaching session and had a good chance to win all three games. I came out of there feeling real good about my game. I get so frustrated when I start to play on my table but I really never gave it any thought till now. How do you make position when you pot a nice red by the black spot and your nearest colour is up in the baulk area. Answer you try to hammer the red in to get up table and no snooker pockets will accept a ball at that force so it rattles.

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

It sounds to me like you've taken the pockets down incorrectly and now they are like the pockets at the Master Q where the sides of the pockets are vertical and the balls actually hit the wood underneath the cloth on a sharp angled pot. You should get Pat to come out again. The only correct way to do it is to take the rubber off the pocket opening and sand back the wood underneath and using your template drawing keep checking it until you find the pocket opening matches BOTH templates or with your skill level perhaps slightly larger than the IBSF templates I loaned you (I can loan them to you again if you wanted).

To confirm this hitting the wood underneath the rubber take a close look at the cloth just below the rubber on the black pockets and see if there's any wear there as there shouldn't be.

The drawing I sent you also had the shape of the cushions going into the pockets and how the pockets are shaped below the rubber. I used to think this was called 'undercut' but moglet on here corrected me and it's correctly called something else and I can't remember the term.

Tell Pat exactly what you want done as he is capable of getting the pockets correct for you.

Terry

[itsnoteasy]

Terry what did you think of the pockets, were they too small or cut funny ? I think I read somewhere that old billiard tables had pockets that were tighter, could Your table be like that Les?.
I don't think the lack of competitive matches coincides with an eight in the line upeaceful:eaceful:

[vmax4steve]

LOL the more I play on my table the tighter the pockets get until there looks like no Black pocket.....LOL

This tells me that you are looking at the pocket when playing the stroke instead of the contact point on the object ball. It's really that simple and at the same time that hard to focus only on the contact point of the object ball at the moment of the strike instead of the other variables contained within the shot you are playing.

I play on a very tight old table and I only do it 50% of the time at best, but when I do the game is easy, yet when I don't I can't pot them over the pockets.

Concentrate on only this for a week or so. You will know when you are doing it when you walk away from the table after playing well and remember that you 'saw' each ball clearly.

[Terry Davidson]

itsnoteasy:

When I played on Les' table the pockets were tight as they were the original billiard pockets which were around 3-1/4" I would guess with very little bevel below the rubber on the corner pockets and the middle pockets were quite tight too. Given a little time and more frames I think I could have had some better breaks.

I tried a few small line-up and I put 4 reds below the black and although it was more difficult than my table I still made the balls but I had to get used to the speed as the table was a lot slower than mine.

Terry

[lesedwards]

Les:

It sounds to me like you've taken the pockets down incorrectly and now they are like the pockets at the Master Q where the sides of the pockets are vertical and the balls actually hit the wood underneath the cloth on a sharp angled pot. You should get Pat to come out again. The only correct way to do it is to take the rubber off the pocket opening and sand back the wood underneath and using your template drawing keep checking it until you find the pocket opening matches BOTH templates or with your skill level perhaps slightly larger than the IBSF templates I loaned you (I can loan them to you again if you wanted).

To confirm this hitting the wood underneath the rubber take a close look at the cloth just below the rubber on the black pockets and see if there's any wear there as there shouldn't be.

The drawing I sent you also had the shape of the cushions going into the pockets and how the pockets are shaped below the rubber. I used to think this was called 'undercut' but moglet on here corrected me and it's correctly called something else and I can't remember the term.

Tell Pat exactly what you want done as he is capable of getting the pockets correct for you.

Terry

Hi Terry no the pockets have no wear marks and when I did it I took your template and put it back over the open rubber and marked it with a white pen and then sanded them to exactly match the template but just making the slightly larger. I was down there last night and through a few balls along the cushion and it did not matter how hard I through them they all sucked right into the pocket so that explains your quote from last night. " Les there is nothing wrong with your table" I am going to start working on just running reds in a line up and start with the ones in the center of the table. They will be a little easier but not like it would be on your table. My sides are right on to the templates so you might have an angle about 6" on either side of the pink where you might be able to pot a ball but beyond that there is no side pocket to shoot at. If you play the roll of the nap very slowly you can get about a 3" curve in the ball which then opens it up. I did not notice your table to move the ball much with nap probably because it is so thin. From corner to corner hit dead weight it will move 3" minimum. Yes my table is dead level. Roll one across the baulk line and it will be 3" off when it gets to the other side. Heavy Nap. 6811 Tournament. Next cloth will be #10 or Precision.

[j6uk]

or it could be the best thing you could ever do.
i spent my youth in and around the 80s london snooker scene. i played a lot older fellas 'for a fiva and the candles' who where spending there retirement time and money in the clubs.
i came across many who were obviously still doing the same old thing they've been doing most of there life, they knew it all too. but their anger, frustration and regret was tangible.. there were others on the other hand who were quiet fine players or ones who knew there limitations, with know bs, in and out of the club with a smile, not hanging around. these old lads lived their life like their game, always played the right shot.

Les, do not get rid of your table!
You will regret it for ever.

[jrc750]

...If you play the roll of the nap very slowly you can get about a 3" curve in the ball which then opens it up. I did not notice your table to move the ball much with nap probably because it is so thin. From corner to corner hit dead weight it will move 3" minimum. Yes my table is dead level. Roll one across the baulk line and it will be 3" off when it gets to the other side. Heavy Nap. 6811 Tournament. Next cloth will be #10 or Precision.

That is ridiculous

[Terry Davidson]

Les:
(as jrc says)

I don't want to burst your bubble here, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you should get 3" of roll-off due to the nap of the table even if you had a 50oz cloth with a strong nap.

Either you are checking it wrong or else your table cannot be level. On a level table if you cue along the baulkline slowly you MIGHT get 1/4" roll-off towards the top of the table.

To check this just roll a straight blue into the centre of the middle pocket at dead weight. It shouldn't roll off at all due to nap effect, perhaps, at most, 1/4". If it doesn't roll off on the blue shot then the baulk end of your table must be high (most likely) or the top end low. This will be the end 2 legs on each side as long as there's no lateral roll but if there is then one set of legs is higher than the other.

How much will a black roll off at dead weight? It shouldn't roll off at all if the table is level. By the way, my table is pretty level but I've still noticed some minor rolls like when shooting the spots on the 5th leg the ball will move a little to the right but only 1/2' or so as it's stopping. I also have a slight roll from pink to one middle pocket where it moves towards baulk about a 1/4" on a dead weight shot. This is not a nap effect as it's the wrong way so the 2 legs on each side of that middle pocket are slightly out or else the slate has not been leveled correctly.

I would recommend you check this again since if you get 3" across the baulkline and your table is perfectly level then you should get the same effect using the blue to middle. Try slowly rolling the cueball with the nap from green spot to the open top pocket and see how much it moves. If it moves at all then your table is not level.

Terry

[throtts]

3 inch roll out is well wrong..Something is not correct, get it checked again, Les..

[itsnoteasy]

Do you mean three mill not three inch? That's not far off a ball and a half drift, even our club tables aren't that bad, in fact they recovered some of them and levelled the slates or put some type of filler in( company called breakaway) and you can pot long balls from baulk just harder than pocket weight and they hold their line. I asked the lads and they said it was Strachan cloth going on, they said it wasn't the best of cloths but that's what the owner wanted, it is still easily twice as fast as the other tables but the fitters said it won't last.
If you sell your table Les try and just get a run of the mill old club table I think that would be much better for you.

[lesedwards]

Les:
(as jrc says)

I don't want to burst your bubble here, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY you should get 3" of roll-off due to the nap of the table even if you had a 50oz cloth with a strong nap.

Either you are checking it wrong or else your table cannot be level. On a level table if you cue along the baulkline slowly you MIGHT get 1/4" roll-off towards the top of the table.

To check this just roll a straight blue into the centre of the middle pocket at dead weight. It shouldn't roll off at all due to nap effect, perhaps, at most, 1/4". If it doesn't roll off on the blue shot then the baulk end of your table must be high (most likely) or the top end low. This will be the end 2 legs on each side as long as there's no lateral roll but if there is then one set of legs is higher than the other.

How much will a black roll off at dead weight? It shouldn't roll off at all if the table is level. By the way, my table is pretty level but I've still noticed some minor rolls like when shooting the spots on the 5th leg the ball will move a little to the right but only 1/2' or so as it's stopping. I also have a slight roll from pink to one middle pocket where it moves towards baulk about a 1/4" on a dead weight shot. This is not a nap effect as it's the wrong way so the 2 legs on each side of that middle pocket are slightly out or else the slate has not been leveled correctly.

I would recommend you check this again since if you get 3" across the baulkline and your table is perfectly level then you should get the same effect using the blue to middle. Try slowly rolling the cueball with the nap from green spot to the open top pocket and see how much it moves. If it moves at all then your table is not level.

Terry

Just checked it again and if I roll a blue dead in the side it moves enough to miss. But with any level I have it is perfect but I have already contacted a guy to come check it. He will be here the week after next. You need a machinist level to get it right. Going down shortly to run reds on a line up. Going to start with middle reds.