Can't get through the lineup - tips and ideas

[itsnoteasy]

I don't know if anyone has told you this Les but power in the shot is not generated by more effort, but by a longer backswing, this gives the cue longer to accelerate therefore it gets to a higher top speed, so it's the same effort just for longer if you know what I mean,(but it has to be through and beyond the white with a relaxed grip )it's not the same backswing with more effort, which produces the short jabby swing you have. You played golf so you will know that you have to play right through the ball to get a good reaction, a short stabby swing and a hit at the golf ball with all your might will get you nothing, it's the same with snooker, not effort ,technique, that's the winner
I don't like this advice that you are not punching through the shot, you are not getting through the shot but you shouldn't be punching it you should be stroking through the white, to me you are punching everything.

[Ricky2112]

Hi Les, am no expert but i watched your videos. those pockets are killing your game, great to have your own table but it looks a very difficult table to play. It looks as though you could get your cue a bit more parralel to the table on some of your shots but maybe its the camera angle. Do you play anywhere else like a snooker club and if so how do you get on with your potting on other tables. in the third video the white goes in the middle pocket, aint it funny how big a pocket becomes for a white to go in lol.
I would take Terrys advice and get some work done on the pockets and am sure yor game will come on leaps and bounds.

Keep at it Les, cheers Ricky

[Stupree]

Can't get through the lineup - tips and ideas

Hi Les

I watched the videos and kept having a word you used pop in to my head. 'Punching'. It was an interesting and appropriate use of the word. Have the people you've played and coached with used that word?

I would describe your cue action as punchy and relatable to a golf punch shot in its compactness and short drive. I wonder if you are aware of this and used the word 'punching' as it feels familiar in its style and action from your time on the golf course?

You already get lots of good advice here and in person so I will not add to the mix as to developing your action but will commend you on your dedication and commitment to improving your game and will end on a quick note about your profile signature. Practice makes permanent!


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[lesedwards]

Record some videos from various angles (behind you, in front, etc) and let's have a look.

Below I have attached some videos. I actually had Floyd Ziegler at my place this afternoon and he told me the same as Terry did. That I am not punching through and also I am rolling the cue ball instead of stunning the cue ball. Terry told me to hit them harder for now to get me driving through the cue ball. So these videos show me working on these new things. Do not worry about my bridge arm. It does not straighten anymore then it is.
https://bambuser.com/v/4520973
https://bambuser.com/v/4521013
https://bambuser.com/v/4521021

[jrc750]

This is table i was on tonight

[lesedwards]

Sorry I did not realize I put the same one up twice. I have the photos of Terry's table also. You will see the difference.
My Table



Terry's Table

[jrc750]

...Just out of curiously next time you guys are at the club take 2 measurements for me. One across the fall of the corner pocket, if you don't understand just take a tape measure and measure straight across cushion to cushion where the ball falls off the slate and then take one of the side pocket. My corner pockets are 3-1/2" and my sides are 4-1/2". .... I can't wait to hear your replies with measurements.
I have attached a couple photos to compare with.

I will try and get pics tonight of one of the tables i play on, altho your middle pocket looks pretty big to me ?
You showed middle pocket twice, was there meant to be one of the corner pocket ???

...Terry just sent me photos of his pockets, 4" corner and 8" side. ...

Was that a mistake on Terry's pocket size ?? seems massive !!!

[lesedwards]

Tough table can slow down anyone, but to completely destroy one's game? I don't think so. Don't become one of those players who always blame the equipment.
Btw, what was your line up like on a 5x10?

I never really practiced the line up then. I did not even know Terry at that point until close to the end. The balls just went in easier because I had the pockets made larger and I would strut around the table like I was the best.

[ace man]

I agree with the walk before you run. My 43 came in our first provincial qualifiers of the year on a 6x12 and I told Terry by the next qualifier I would reach my half century I was beaming with confidence. Also I lost that match 4-2 but played fantastic then came my tight 6 x 12 and that's when things went down hill. I have only won 2 games in the past 8 qualifiers.

Tough table can slow down anyone, but to completely destroy one's game? I don't think so. Don't become one of those players who always blame the equipment.
Btw, what was your line up like on a 5x10?

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

My own opinion is first of all you have to bring out the pockets on your table to somewhere around the size of mine. You have the photos I sent you. As I had said almost all of the great players in the world did start out on tables with generous pockets however the big difference is they were all very young and therefore learned very quickly.

Larger pockets enable you to gain confidence potting a ball and that allows you to concentrate on your cueball control. As your cueball control becomes better normally the pots will also become easier and it has sort of a pull effect where improvement comes quicker. As you've learned a tighter table is not very smart for a beginner and should only be used by good players for practice where they are not learning the game as much as you are.

The other thing I recommended to you is to play a few weeks were you are hitting every shot hard (except maybe the dead easy ones where you shouldn't miss). I still remember the long blues I had you play when I was there where I had you try and screw back to the baulkline. You made a good number of those dead-centre and did screw back. You have a very bad habit of not accelerating through the cueball so when playing these hard shots concentrate on trying to hit the object ball with the tip, driving the grip hand all the way to the chest and most importantly leave the cue extended for a couple of seconds at the end of the shot and keep the body very still.

Terry

[lesedwards]

Please understand that 12ft table is a beast, regardless of pocket size. What did you expect? Sorry to say this, but I seriously doubt that you drilled that 10ft table, if 43 was your high break.
IMO, you should have stayed with a 10ft and not switched to a 12ft.I've never played on a 10ft, but I'm quite sure it would not be a walk in the park.
One needs to learn to walk before he can run.

I agree with the walk before you run. My 43 came in our first provincial qualifiers of the year on a 6x12 and I told Terry by the next qualifier I would reach my half century I was beaming with confidence. Also I lost that match 4-2 but played fantastic then came my tight 6 x 12 and that's when things went down hill. I have only won 2 games in the past 8 qualifiers.

[ace man]

I had a high break in a match of 43 the week before I went from my old 5x10 snooker table to my 6x12 Burroughs n Watts. I think my high break since is 21.

Please understand that 12ft table is a beast, regardless of pocket size. What did you expect? Sorry to say this, but I seriously doubt that you drilled that 10ft table, if 43 was your high break.
IMO, you should have stayed with a 10ft and not switched to a 12ft.I've never played on a 10ft, but I'm quite sure it would not be a walk in the park.
One needs to learn to walk before he can run.

[lesedwards]

oh well, I was only trying to help Les ... I assume the friend you're talking about is Cliff Thorburn so I'm certainly not going to disagree with one of the snooker greats

I think my point still remains though, I certainly always strive to hit the cueball confidently having found out, through experience, that tentative stabs don't work ...

I know you are only trying to help and I will except what ever anyone has to offer. Thanks, this time it was Floyd Ziegler that was over and I have had to play him twice in qualifiers this year where he has taken me 4 games straight on both occasions and usually over before the colours but on my table it was a different game. Shots that he would normally make would rattle and spit them right back at him and he would just shake his head. He also could not believe how little room for error there was in the sides. The green and the yellow off their spots have to be hit very slowly to go in the side and with any pace and a mm of line and you can forget it. I can't wait to hear some measurements of everyone's pockets.

[lesedwards]

Les, one thing I suggest is to simply have faith. Don't worry so much potting the ball at all. I know that's not going to make sense, but just trust me. Get your mind off it. Just get down into what you believe is the correct line of aim, feather until it "feels" right and it "feels" like you are going to make the pot. Your sight together with your feathering will provide the initial "will I pot this?" feedback to you. Once it looks and feels right, pause momentarily at the cue ball, and then before the final backswing and execution, just release your mental focus off the pot completely and think instead of straight cueing wherever you just feathered. The slow backswing, will also give you a feeling for the cue ball control. This is something I do on lower percentage shots from time to time if I'm not cueing properly. You need to understand, to some degree, you can't really change whether you will pot the ball or not once you are down on the shot. If you walk in "offline" then you are more than likely not going to pot the ball anyways unless you swerve your cue action "into" line during the final stroke - not recommended, but it can be done.

It's another possibility that you are not walking correctly into the line of aim to begin with. One thing you should do is test your aiming line and this can be done with a camera or with a partner. The way to do this is to walk in and get down on a pot (3/4 pink for example), and then stop at the cue ball. Don't move. Let a partner see you from the other side of the cue ball (ie facing you and looking through the object ball and into the cue ball to see if you are in the correct position. What they should be looking for is whether your cue is pointed at the correct line of aim. What the partner/camera needs to see from this viewpoint is to find out if you would actually make the object ball given the line of aim you just got into. If it looks "off" or too "thick" or "thin", then that's a fundamental issue that can be worked out by working on your wak in process.

The most amazing thing about potting is that if you stop thinking about it after feathering, and start thinking how the cue ball will react off the object ball and where it will stop, you will make the pot anyways. There is an x-factor in potting which is our natural ability to feel and our hand eye coordination. Trust it, develop it, and be aware of it, and it will serve you well.

Regarding others being lucky, and you not being, it's important to understand that nothing in the game is magic. Everything can taught and learned if you just start accepting that you can change and learn and adapt and use your own feedback mechanisms to self-learn.

Record some videos from various angles (behind you, in front, etc) and let's have a look.

Thanks for all the great advice. That was well wrote and yes makes a lot of sense. Just one thing on confidence, about a month ago I had a guy call me and wanted to know if I would be interested in a playing partner and he had a table so I took him up on the offer. His table was a Brunswick Anniversary model with big pockets. I noticed right off the bat this guy was a very good player as he took me 3 games straight but as we played I started to make a few pots and realized they went in real easy. By the end of the night he never won another game. I was making pots and playing great positional shots. The game had become fun and you could actually make a pink off its spot in the side pocket something that is virtually impossible on my table. I could not wait to get home and text Cliff and tell him how I played. I went down to my table the next night and by the end of the night I was right back to square one like I had never played before.

[DandyA]

World Snooker corners are 3-1/2 possibly a hair larger, club pockets are 3-5/8" to 4" Terry just sent me photos of his pockets, 4" corner and 8" side. I had A friend of mine over which is a past Canadian Champion his high run for the day was mid 30's he could not believe how tough the table was. This is coming from a guy who runs centuries in our qualifiers. For me it has everything to do with the width of the pocket. When you practice hour after hour and you try things such as a little line up and the majority of the time I am lucky to run 16. Cliff was saying when he was here a lot of the guys practiced on tables with over sized pockets to build confidence and also to work on position and not be so concerned with potting the ball. If you spend hour after hour practicing and you keep missing what good does this do for your confidence.

oh well, I was only trying to help Les ... I assume the friend you're talking about is Cliff Thorburn so I'm certainly not going to disagree with one of the snooker greats

I think my point still remains though, I certainly always strive to hit the cueball confidently having found out, through experience, that tentative stabs don't work ...