Can't get through the lineup - tips and ideas

[itsnoteasy]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I did not just pick up the cue and position is the last thing on my mind at the moment all I am trying to do is get the object ball to go in that little pocket. Did anyone think maybe all these problems stem from the fact the pockets are so tight that you lift up to see if you have finally made one, never delivering the cue the same because I am so tensed up trying to make the shot. Just think Terry's corner pockets are a 1/2" wider almost a third of a ball wider and his side pockets are 2" wider almost a full ball width. You have know idea how tight the table plays without playing on it. Floyd which is our current Canadian Snooker Champion has probably played 30 games on my table and his high run as of yesterday is 68, a lot of the time he was running 30's and 40's he is known to run centuries at a lot of our qualifiers. He likes the table because he says it sharpens up his game but says it is one of the toughest tables he has played on. He said the side pockets have one shot and if it is not hit perfect it will not go in.

I don't see anything to be confident about, tell you what Les private message Terry so it doesn't become a slanging match and he can be brutally honest and get him to tell you one thing you are doing right out of the say six or seven fundamental basics, and either pm me what he says or put it up here as I know you like it on the forums(with Terry's permission) I will be surprised if he can come up with more than one.

[Wayne G]

I do agree with you as for the pros. I never miss a Tournament on live Sport and when I watch close up shots of a black being cut to the corner and I see it hit the near cushion first and still go in I just shake my head. Cliff said the same thing. He said people come to watch centuries not guys missing shot after shot. So why should I struggle on tight pockets and destroy my confidence when every place we play have buckets for pockets. Yes I know people say if you practice on a tight table you should be awesome on a table with big pockets but if the tight table is destroying your confidence and your stroke then is it rely worth it?

Hi Les,

Personally, I agree with you. I wouldn't like to play on a tight table as I struggle on loose ones. I think that I'd give up the game altogether, I'd be so frustrated.

[vmax4steve]

I do agree with you as for the pros. I never miss a Tournament on live Sport and when I watch close up shots of a black being cut to the corner and I see it hit the near cushion first and still go in I just shake my head. Cliff said the same thing. He said people come to watch centuries not guys missing shot after shot. So why should I struggle on tight pockets and destroy my confidence when every place we play have buckets for pockets. Yes I know people say if you practice on a tight table you should be awesome on a table with big pockets but if the tight table is destroying your confidence and your stroke then is it rely worth it?

Forget the pocket, look at the target.

[lesedwards]

Les
I learned to play on a table so tight that a ball on the cushion had to be hit perfect at pocket weight for it to drop in. Any harder and it stayed out, a touch on the jaws and it stayed out. My highest match break of 86 was made on that table, and my one and only total clearance in practise was also made on that table. Maybe that table held my game back, maybe not but I still play on it, last night in fact and I played some great pots and made some 30/40 breaks that could have been bigger but that was my own fault as the ones on target went in and the ones that weren't stayed out.
You have a table with tight pockets, no big deal. The pros have it too easy IMO.
Forget the pocket, look at the target and the balls will go in.

I do agree with you as for the pros. I never miss a Tournament on live Sport and when I watch close up shots of a black being cut to the corner and I see it hit the near cushion first and still go in I just shake my head. Cliff said the same thing. He said people come to watch centuries not guys missing shot after shot. So why should I struggle on tight pockets and destroy my confidence when every place we play have buckets for pockets. Yes I know people say if you practice on a tight table you should be awesome on a table with big pockets but if the tight table is destroying your confidence and your stroke then is it rely worth it?

[vmax4steve]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I did not just pick up the cue and position is the last thing on my mind at the moment all I am trying to do is get the object ball to go in that little pocket. Did anyone think maybe all these problems stem from the fact the pockets are so tight that you lift up to see if you have finally made one, never delivering the cue the same because I am so tensed up trying to make the shot. Just think Terry's corner pockets are a 1/2" wider almost a third of a ball wider and his side pockets are 2" wider almost a full ball width. You have know idea how tight the table plays without playing on it. Floyd which is our current Canadian Snooker Champion has probably played 30 games on my table and his high run as of yesterday is 68, a lot of the time he was running 30's and 40's he is known to run centuries at a lot of our qualifiers. He likes the table because he says it sharpens up his game but says it is one of the toughest tables he has played on. He said the side pockets have one shot and if it is not hit perfect it will not go in.

Les
I learned to play on a table so tight that a ball on the cushion had to be hit perfect at pocket weight for it to drop in. Any harder and it stayed out, a touch on the jaws and it stayed out. My highest match break of 86 was made on that table, and my one and only total clearance in practise was also made on that table. Maybe that table held my game back, maybe not but I still play on it, last night in fact and I played some great pots and made some 30/40 breaks that could have been bigger but that was my own fault as the ones on target went in and the ones that weren't stayed out.
You have a table with tight pockets, no big deal. The pros have it too easy IMO.
Forget the pocket, look at the target and the balls will go in.

[Mike P]

Les the apprehensiveness you describe is definitely affecting you stroke. I see it often when someone plays on my table. It is hard to relax and let the cue flow, when the pockets seem to be shrinking as you pull the trigger. It’s your table, do what feels right for you.
Mike

[lesedwards]

Good posts Terry, everything you said is true ,I was going to post up something similar but I thought it sounded like I was pulling Les game to bits, but if I had to honestly say what I thought I would say even after all the practice and coaching Les looks like he has just picked up a cue that day, but there is hope In his last video after you had sorted his grip he was cueing to the chest and coming through the white so he can do it(it's the video of him cueing up and down the table).
The only thing I would disagree with is I don't think there was one shot missed due to the pockets on the table, as I didn't see any rattle or get spat back out, what I saw was straight forward run throughs missed by some distance, and someone who doesn't have a clue how the cue ball works so couldn't play the simplest of positional shots to leave at least a reasonable shot on the next ball, I would say appart from the first shot where the white is placed by hand on the table over ninety percent of the rest of the shots the white was out of position, this makes it ten times harder no matter the size of the pockets.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, I did not just pick up the cue and position is the last thing on my mind at the moment all I am trying to do is get the object ball to go in that little pocket. Did anyone think maybe all these problems stem from the fact the pockets are so tight that you lift up to see if you have finally made one, never delivering the cue the same because I am so tensed up trying to make the shot. Just think Terry's corner pockets are a 1/2" wider almost a third of a ball wider and his side pockets are 2" wider almost a full ball width. You have know idea how tight the table plays without playing on it. Floyd which is our current Canadian Snooker Champion has probably played 30 games on my table and his high run as of yesterday is 68, a lot of the time he was running 30's and 40's he is known to run centuries at a lot of our qualifiers. He likes the table because he says it sharpens up his game but says it is one of the toughest tables he has played on. He said the side pockets have one shot and if it is not hit perfect it will not go in.

[Mike P]

Hi Les, first off, your dedication to the sport will pay off once you get beyond the basics. Terry mentioned your alignment. After stepping into a few shots, you seemed to shuffle your feet. I wonder if this was due to feeling out of line. I find that the longer I am down on the shot, the more my mind gets in the way. Like someone else said, pull the trigger quicker. As others have said, your stroke is a bit punchy. I once read that instead of hitting the ball, think of spearing it. That way you are still accelerating through the ball.
Terry I will be in contact soon to set up a lesson. We still have 4’ snow banks, so I’ll wait until spring hits.
Mike

[itsnoteasy]

Good posts Terry, everything you said is true ,I was going to post up something similar but I thought it sounded like I was pulling Les game to bits, but if I had to honestly say what I thought I would say even after all the practice and coaching Les looks like he has just picked up a cue that day, but there is hope In his last video after you had sorted his grip he was cueing to the chest and coming through the white so he can do it(it's the video of him cueing up and down the table).
The only thing I would disagree with is I don't think there was one shot missed due to the pockets on the table, as I didn't see any rattle or get spat back out, what I saw was straight forward run throughs missed by some distance, and someone who doesn't have a clue how the cue ball works so couldn't play the simplest of positional shots to leave at least a reasonable shot on the next ball, I would say appart from the first shot where the white is placed by hand on the table over ninety percent of the rest of the shots the white was out of position, this makes it ten times harder no matter the size of the pockets.

[lesedwards]

Les:

And one more point which has been already mentioned by someone else. Please stick this in one ear while you hold your hand over the other ear so maybe it will stay inside your head!!!

POWER COMES PRIMARILY FROM THE LENGTH OF THE BACKSWING and a longer backswing gives the player more room to accelerate the cue SMOOTHLY rather than doing what a lot of players do and that is to really tighten the grip at the beginning of the delivery so they can accelerate the cue rapidly in the short space they had and now that the grip is so tight at the time of strike it's really simple and automatic to stop the cue abruptly. This will all cause upper body movement.

You don't have to develop a really long backswing where the ferrule comes back to the 'V' of the bridge (which would be around 10" or so) but something in the 6"-8" would probably work quite well for you. Also remember most of the tables we play our tournaments on are way too slow (in my opinion) and a player needs a longer backswing just to get the required power on slow tables.

Terry

You finally woke up..... just kidding....I have never wanted to excel at something more then Snooker but I have never come across something that has so many things to think about and to go wrong. I guess golf is much the same but I took it up at 11 years old and never took a lesson in my life I just developed my own game. I defiantly will be making my pockets larger and I will work on the rest of the suggestions. I wish I had time to get up to your place but at this point I am moving into my busy season and usually have to be at the job site first thing in the morning. I can always find free time late morning but by then it is too late to drive to your place.

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

And one more point which has been already mentioned by someone else. Please stick this in one ear while you hold your hand over the other ear so maybe it will stay inside your head!!!

POWER COMES PRIMARILY FROM THE LENGTH OF THE BACKSWING and a longer backswing gives the player more room to accelerate the cue SMOOTHLY rather than doing what a lot of players do and that is to really tighten the grip at the beginning of the delivery so they can accelerate the cue rapidly in the short space they had and now that the grip is so tight at the time of strike it's really simple and automatic to stop the cue abruptly. This will all cause upper body movement.

You don't have to develop a really long backswing where the ferrule comes back to the 'V' of the bridge (which would be around 10" or so) but something in the 6"-8" would probably work quite well for you. Also remember most of the tables we play our tournaments on are way too slow (in my opinion) and a player needs a longer backswing just to get the required power on slow tables.

Terry

[Terry Davidson]

Les:

First of all I get up every morning between 6am and 6:30am, so no snide comments please.

Now to the videos and my first comment is 'JESUS CHRIST'!!! I am seeing somewhere around 7 different things that I have told you about and got you to correct during a coaching session but I see they are right back into your cue action. They are:

1. Crowding the cueball with the butt of the cue too high.
2. 'Scooping' the cue (which means the butt is rising and falling on the backswing and delivery) and note please you can see the cue dropping to the cushion when you deliver.
3. Too damned short backswing and slow the backswing down and extend it a bit.
4. Short and 'stabby' delivery for almost every shot (the only good one I saw was the black in the 3rd video where you went 2 cushions for position and required a bit of power). As I recommended to you try practicing using more power.
5. Relax the grip more and quit tightening it before the strike (hard to learn how to do correctly). A grip that doesn't tighten during the delivery will greatly help you to drive through the cueball.
6. Try and get your set-up more aligned. Right now your elbow is too far outside the cue and this means you have to use extra coordination to deliver the cue straight. (Didn't see the feet but I'll bet they are out of alignment too).
7. Despite what vmax has said, YOU ARE LEARNING THE GAME and you should bring your pockets out. Myself, Cliff and Floyd have all said your pockets are too tight so how much more expertise on pocket size do you need? Maybe you can invite Steve Davis over for a frame or two and see what he thinks?

As I've said previously I think you need to get up here again for another 2hr session but what I have to do is whack you over the head every time you revert to your old habits. Perhaps a shock machine would work better and give you some negative reinforcement and get you out of all those bad habits.

Terry

[lesedwards]

Hi guys thanks for all your great comments, now it's my turn to respond...LOL
1. Eyes, I agree I am spending to much time over the ball and I know my eyes are wondering all over the place and deffinatly moving towards the pocket when they should not.
2. My bridge, Terry has worked with me on this and he also knows that sometimes because of the position of the cue ball I find it really difficult to get my bridge where it should be due to my bad arm which has little movement and my wrist also does not move like normal.
3. Tight pockets, this is a big topic. Some people say make them bigger, Cliff says your pockets can never be too big when you are working on your game, Terry says larger pockets will give me a chance to work on positional play and boost my confidence. Then Floyd says the table plays great one of the best tables he has played on. Says it really tightens up his game but I need a game to tighten up...LOL others say I am better to leave them alone also. I have mixed feelings on what I should do.
3. Punching not sure if this was the correct word to use, I am trying to say that I must accelerate through the cue ball.
4. Long back swing, I guess this stems back to my golf days.....when you are putting or chipping long back swings will destroy your game. Short back swing and accelerate through the ball. I watch golfers take big back swings then de celerate when they get to the ball which causes them to either thin it across the green or hit behind the ball. I find if I go to the big long back swing I have the same problem with snooker.
Not sure if I covered everything and I am sure Terry will add some very good points when he wakes up and watches the videos. I will practice all your suggestions and post more videos later this week.
Thanks.

[vmax4steve]

I watched back some of your misses and you are lifting your head before the cueball has hit the object ball. try and stay down until the OB hits the back of the pocket or comes to rest, by doing this at least when you miss your brain will get enough time for feedback on the shot.

Nail on the head there Alabadi, not looking at the object ball on the strike, what I've been saying all along. I couldn't see your eyes Les but I watched your eyebrow ridges raise up before the strike on every shot you play. This tells me that you are looking to the pocket before the strike, taking your eyes off the object ball which is the target.

You're also taking far too long over every shot you play, and I think this is a very real reason why you're taking your eyes off the object ball. You're staring at something, be it cue ball or object ball, for too long, letting anxiety creep in, tensing up and exploding at the cue ball with a jabby action as you take your eyes off whatever it is you're staring at.

You must be relaxed at all times, simply stand behind the shot, look at the contact point on the object ball, look at the cue ball, see the line of aim, get down into your stance while looking at the object ball, once down check tip is at the centre of the cue ball, look up at the object ball, focus on the contact point and play the shot while keeping the eyes on the contact point of the object ball.
Do this more quickly, don't take too long and allow your mind and body to tense up, once the contact point on the object ball is focussed on play the stroke.

Forget the pocket altogether, forget the cue ball once you have checked your tip is pointing at its centre, forget the cue even, contact point on the object ball is all you should be looking at when striking the cue ball.
You're not playing golf, you're target is not the ball you're striking, the target is not the pocket, the target is the contact point on the object ball.
Your hand will follow your eye, the cue is in your hand and the cue ball will become part of your cue, it's the way it is and no one is any different.

Your pockets are not too tight Les, the table I usually play is as tight as yours and those shots you're missing in those videos are basic and will be made easily if you do what your told to do. Get it into your head that this is the main factor in your game that you consistantly get wrong, everything will get better once this is addressed.

It's not easy mate, it's very hard to do if it doesn't come naturally and there will be times when you feel that you're doing it and still missing and that it doesn't work for you, but that will be a wrong assumption. It can feel like you're doing it when in fact you aren't because the eyes will switch to the pocket in a split second and you will be unaware of it.
Take it as read that when this happens the only reason you miss is because your eyes have switched elsewhere than the contact point on the object ball.

[alabadi]

Hi Les

I watched your video and have a few comments, I'm no coach but from the observations this is what I can see.

1)
you are not consistent with the way you play shots. i.e. some you stay still and on quite a few you are getting up early. I watched back some of your misses and you are lifting your head before the cueball has hit the object ball. try and stay down until the OB hits the back of the pocket or comes to rest, by doing this at least when you miss your brain will get enough time for feedback on the shot.

2)
your grip is behind vertical, so in effect you should get a longer follow through, however you don't because you don't push your cue through, this in effects makes it look stabby, you need to relax and push through to your chest you should find that you will get a better reaction from the cueball and then begin to understand the true limits of the shot.

3)

you didn't do this often but I did notice on a few shots the length of your bridge wasn't consistent, you had some shots off the cushion which you could have got your hand on the table but used a long bridge off the cushion. its best to keep the same bridge length where possible.

i have not played on your table but from the amount of balls that rattle the pockets it looks tight. i would follow Terry's advice and get them widened because it will only frustrate you and this will effect your confidence and therefore effect the way you play.

what i have found and still trying to overcome is, trust the decisions you make while standing and when down execute them without doubt. i still have difficulty with soft screw shots on 1/4 balls. when I'm down i don't trust that i can hold, so subconsciously this doubt cause me to decelerate on the shot and therefor not get the correct reaction from the cueball and obviously this leads to loss of position.

at least if you go through with the shot fully committed and it didn't work, you will learn from it and next time it comes up you will know the limits of the shot.

good luck les , don't lose heart keep it up mate.