Why isn't the Trump technique and Set-up now the Textbook Standard?

[Byrom]

Byrom, i did say players were all slightly different and the grip in particular is very unique to each player. However he does keep his elbow up during the shot like Steve Davis and Stephen Hendy did in their heyday which is closer to textbook than Ronnie OSullivan and his elbow drop. As a coach I think you incorporate a players natural style into their game but when starting a player out you can cut out anything that may stop or slow down their improvement.

When we say textbook - who's to say what is right n wrong Gav?

Ronnie drops his elbow - that was not - textbook -
Selby moves side to side - that was not textbook -
Trump moves slightly forwards - that is not textbook-
Hendry used to look at the pocket during his aiming process - that is not textbook
Bingham holds the cue high at the back - that is not textbook
Murphy feathers going into the shot - that is not textbook


I could go because every single top pro player in fact probably every decent player does something unique in their own game in their set up but my point is this - No two players play alike but the best players all have certain things in common - whatever they do is their set up is consistent - therefore my point is you can make a bad habit work for you in your game.

All those players mentioned have something not exactly described as textbook - but a few world titles between them yes?

I agree with your point about starting a player out and there are of course other glaring errors or traits that hold back improvement later on but I think becoming consistent in your own shape, set up and pre shot routine is vital and I don't think there is a perfect textbook approach to snooker - only suggestions on improving your own set up. If there was a perfect textbook way - we would all play the same but that does not happen.

Whenever I think perfect textbook I think of Steve Davis - but he fiddled with his set up too - too much at times perhaps. I think the poster master blaster who comes in for a bit of stick - has actually made a very good observation - I cant see much wrong with him wanting to replicate stuff like this - if it adds to his game why not -

The game has moved on - The textbooks need re-writing.

[mythman69]

If it works for them then it works

The textbook WAS probably Joe Davis because of his massive effect/control of the game. But genius pushes past the past so to speak.

But for a beginner it is good to get some basics down and go from there.

Probably not a good idea to rock side to side (i.e Selby) or play like Alex Higgins unless you have a real talent for the game.

What works for one doesn't work for others.

Telling beginners not to stand up on their shot is a good idea I think. Those at the top are a different creature anyway to us normal folk.

Anyway just my 5 cents worth.

[golferson123]

Why isn't the Trump technique and Set-up now the Textbook Standard?

agree 100% ,as for so called textbook. in the immortal words of a mexican bandit,textbook I don't need no stinkin textbook

[gavpowell]

agree 100% ,as for so called textbook. in the immortal words of a mexican bandit,textbook I don't need no stinkin textbook

Not that immortal apprently - you're misquoting the line The version you're using comes from an episode of the Monkees

[golferson123]

Not that immortal apprently - you're misquoting the line The version you're using comes from an episode of the Monkees

It was a parody from b/saddles as byron spotted, meaning who needs textbooks

[ghost121]

It was a parody from b/saddles as byron spotted, meaning who needs textbooks

I thought it was a quote from Eli Wallach in The Magnificent Seven…which is apparently a common misconception now that I've just checked…I haven't seen Blazing Saddles or the Monkees version, but I have seen The Treasure of the Sierra Madre with Bogart. Strange how the memory plays tricks.

[Master Blaster]

When we say textbook - who's to say what is right n wrong Gav?

Ronnie drops his elbow - that was not - textbook -
Selby moves side to side - that was not textbook -
Trump moves slightly forwards - that is not textbook-
Hendry used to look at the pocket during his aiming process - that is not textbook
Bingham holds the cue high at the back - that is not textbook
Murphy feathers going into the shot - that is not textbook


I could go because every single top pro player in fact probably every decent player does something unique in their own game in their set up but my point is this - No two players play alike but the best players all have certain things in common - whatever they do is their set up is consistent - therefore my point is you can make a bad habit work for you in your game.

All those players mentioned have something not exactly described as textbook - but a few world titles between them yes?

I agree with your point about starting a player out and there are of course other glaring errors or traits that hold back improvement later on but I think becoming consistent in your own shape, set up and pre shot routine is vital and I don't think there is a perfect textbook approach to snooker - only suggestions on improving your own set up. If there was a perfect textbook way - we would all play the same but that does not happen.

Whenever I think perfect textbook I think of Steve Davis - but he fiddled with his set up too - too much at times perhaps. I think the poster master blaster who comes in for a bit of stick - has actually made a very good observation - I cant see much wrong with him wanting to replicate stuff like this - if it adds to his game why not -

The game has moved on - The textbooks need re-writing.

There are different textbooks, Joe Davis, Steve Davis, the Ronnie method and Judd aint' a textbook but it will be in a book one day. I used the tramline Judd stance today, right foot in line with the shot, toes slightly pointing out ala Terry Davidson. Left foot was a foot and a couple of inches ahead, slightly pointing out to the left (like the right foot). This brings things nicely into alignment for a right eye dominant right hander. Left shoulder down (very important as this elevates the cue elbow in effect), not far from the chin, bent arm bridge. Cue under the right side of the chin, cue resting on the last digit of the pinkie, pinkie at the end of the cue, ring grip. Cue under the right nipple. Take the cue back open the fingers gently but never lifting off the cue and bingo, what a brilliant 2 hour sesh. Immense through the ball travel, the most I've ever managed, flying through the ball, less is more. Tons of spin, loads of stun. This set-up is a bit special and something everyone should try just out of interest and to also understand what Judd is up to, a bit of practical snooker edu. The cue definitely goes through more and easier than the orthodox Davis or Ronnie set-ups. Which makes sense because few folk have as much cue power as Judd. Great day on the table, loved it. Loathed leaving.

[tedisbill]

What kind of standard do you play to Blaster?

[Leo]

What kind of standard do you play to Blaster?

Was going to ask him the same and IMHO anyone so in-depth like he's being in the coaching section I would guess he maybe a 30-40 break standard.

[Master Blaster]

I'm just an average ton breaker. Nothing special. lol But I like to try different things, not just to stop me being bored but to investigate ways to improve in all aspects of the game. Having been foot in line, square on to the shot for years (ala Steve Davis), I'm moving away from that as it lacks cue power, not that I'm short of cue power when I need it, I just want easy cue power, the effortless type and I see this in Trump and Robbo, Smurf. Doesn't hurt trying these things when you have some solo practice time available.

I thoroughly recommend this set-up but you'll need to try it for a while for it to become comfortable. Works for Judd and he's only human.

[Leo]

I'm just an average ton breaker. Nothing special. lol

That's surprised me that has as most decent players I've come across don't go in to depth about shots and especially me I couldn't tell you how I play half the time.

[Master Blaster]

That's surprised me that has as most decent players I've come across don't go in to depth about shots and especially me I couldn't tell you how I play half the time.

Yeah, most players just 'play' and couldn't tell you how or why because that's how they've played for donkeys. I'm an analytical person so I can tell you my toe to toe distance, exact grip, how far my shoulder is from the cue, etc. I note these things in my head when I'm trying something new and it's going really well like today, so I can repeat the same routine and set-up next time, or at least try. When I've repeated it ten thousand times, then I stop talking about it, it's getting more natural then.

What I'm not saying is that JT set-up is for everyone. But it's worth trying. If you don't pot some amazing balls and fly through the cue ball after a few sessions, bin it. But it's worth a go, life is for learning. Have fun.

[gavpowell]

It was a parody from b/saddles as byron spotted, meaning who needs textbooks

I'm aware of the meaning - Treasure of the Sierra Madre is one of my favourite films and is the origin of the quote(well, the book too). Blazing Saddles remains the only Brooks film I haven't seen though, so if it's in there too, my apologies for slurring your good name

[DeanH]

Why isn't the Trump technique and Set-up now the Textbook Standard?

Blazing Saddles is well worth watching mate, great fun film
Gene Wilder at his best

[tommygunner1309]

So the big question for me is why isn't this being taught as the de facto approach for players?

Because it doesn't work for everyone. In fact, I have only really seen it work for Judd