A degree in physics to play snooker?

[Ramon]

Well you have it you don't have it - you work on it to improve or you don't try and maybe don't want to - each to their own.
There is a whole industry of coaches most making a living but not a lot of money - although some do. The most successful ones in snooker all incorporate some of the mental side of the game now to help the people they see - and some players might not be aware they are doing it but they are - Not just Chris Henry who probably was the one who first started incorporating sports psychology into his snooker coaching to help Peter Ebdon and Jimmy White back in the day but other successful coaches such as Alan Trigg, PJ Nolan, Dell Hill, and Nik Barrow too among others.

So are they wrong - ?

Well you are right as there are some 'naturally' calm and skilled players that don't need it and ignorance is bliss for the more natural unaware perhaps as sometimes too much knowledge and thinking too deep can be a killer for a 'natural' type too if there is such a thing.

For the eternal knowledge searchers maybe it can help - I believe a persons personality is often reflected on the table - and I don't agree with the old often quoted saying that a leopard can't change its spots. That is the eternal pessimistic view.
If you believe that snooker is a percentage of the mental side and a percentage of skill on it then why not practice improving your skill on the table and practice the mental approach off it - if you do this is there is a chance that you can improve your game in both areas - yes - maybe - what's the harm in trying?

If you are a reflective person and you get angry you can recognise the triggers and work on not getting worked up
If you get nervous you can work on keeping calm
If you get negative and down on yourself you can change to being more positive and begin to see things with more optimism
If you are lazy you can talk to someone - get someone in your corner on your side to help motivate you or be there to talk to if you feel you need it.

If you cant do this then see someone who knows you and can help you. I HONESTLY think sports psychology is a process that can help some players improve and there are some very skilled people in this area - - Like I said Mr Henry is one coach that first started using his research in this area to help snooker players like Peter Ebdon and Jimmy White back in the day really and although he goes deep and left of field sometimes - he does know some stuff is very knowledgeable and there are key things he knows about the game - I believe he is himself a decent player who has had a number of 147's himself so he certainly is not one I would discredit.

Everyone can learn if they open there ears and mind to things - but a man that refuses to listen wont hear.

I feel it is important to know the person and know more about what makes them tick though - Send me a PM and I will - see if I can't motivate you - give it a go -I dare you.

P.s I like the sceptical Ramon!! You bring a lot of colour to the forum!!

90 per cent of the game is in the head some people say - I don't think it is that high personally but a good deal of it is.

“The quickest way to become an old dog is to stop learning new tricks.”

then you may wanna tell me, why he was in the final 6 times and he couldn't win!! why he could'nt just get over the edge ( exact on the time when he needed to )
It was the technique thing or mentally ????
C Henry is a great coach, no doubt about it!! but he lives in a ghost country (fantasy world).
you're right, you could perhaps help a player mentally, for one or two games, but you can never change his natural instinct (where he is born with) forever. is imopssible. ...And finally when the pressure arrives, he falls back to his mental properties where he is born with!!
Yes, you can go dancing around the snooker table (like bunch of Indians) and ask snooker god for extra mental strength and beliveing in urself (just like C henry suggests), to win the match . but you will eventually see that the reality is not what you thought it is !!!!
of crs,,, not saying u can'nt give it a try !! so on that point , i do agree with you.
good post, btw !!

[Master Blaster]

then you may wanna tell me, why he was in the final 6 times and he couldn't win!! why he could'nt just get over the edge ( exact on the time when he needed to )
It was the technique thing or mentally ????
C Henry is a great coach, no doubt about it!! but he lives in a ghost country (fantasy world).
you're right, you could perhaps help a player mentally, for one or two games, but you can never change his natural instinct (where he is born with) forever. is imopssible. ...And finally when the pressure arrives, he falls back to his mental properties where he is born with!!
Yes, you can go dancing around the snooker table (like bunch of Indians) and ask snooker god for extra mental strength and beliveing in urself (just like C henry suggests), to win the match . but you will eventually see that the reality is not what you thought it is !!!!
of crs,,, not saying u can'nt give it a try !! so on that point , i do agree with you.
good post, btw !!

If someone like Barrow had been able to help Jimmy in his heyday, Jimmy would have won two, three, maybe four world titles. We all know he blew at least two when his mind wasn't right and his partying and all. His technique could have been more solid, more Davis-like as well. So that's the difference for me. Hendry didn't need coaching, he is mentally tough, someone who fights all the way, with burning ambition.

Ding was brilliant the season before last, when Nic Barrow worked on his game and his mind! Now he's staying up late, playing computer games and eating junk. How much was the work Barrow did with Ding worth, £100k, £200k, more?

[Master Blaster]

I entirely agree with that. The trick is, knowing what is real, and what is snake oil.

There are some basics on the Frank Callan website fcsnooker that I try to use. I haven't mastered them all, and often fall back into bad habits...but when I'm concentrated and practice correctly it moves my game on (from 20-30's with the occasional 50-60 lightning strike, up to 40-50's with the occasional 60-80 lightning strike). I feel like if I drill and perfect those, I'll be able to play properly.

For those who don't know the thing I'm talking about, the short guidance covers:

The Grip, The Bridge, Bridge Arm and Cue, Arm, Sighting the Ball, The Stance, The Drill.

I don't feel I need much more than that...the rest is practice (and the occasional other set of eyes to confirm that I am doing it right).

Well, you got five major things to perfect there before you hit a ball. They say, these coaches, that it takes 3-6mths to bed in each major change, so if you're changing five major things, that's plenty of work. Good on you for trying.

[Ramon]

If someone like Barrow had been able to help Jimmy in his heyday, Jimmy would have won two, three, maybe four world titles. We all know he blew at least two when his mind wasn't right and his partying and all. His technique could have been more solid, more Davis-like as well. So that's the difference for me. Hendry didn't need coaching, he is mentally tough, someone who fights all the way, with burning ambition.

Ding was brilliant the season before last, when Nic Barrow worked on his game and his mind! Now he's staying up late, playing computer games and eating junk. How much was the work Barrow did with Ding worth, £100k, £200k, more?

Rest my case !!!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Many people on this forum who get into the physics of the game are normally just running on a load of old tat and it's easily skipped if people wish to ignore which I do as snooker is not a complicated as the lecturers on here make out, it's as easy and as hard as you make it. Enjoy the game and learn from practice.

Well again I agree with the straight talking Leo it seems.

Whilst there is physics involved as described by the Dr Dave USA money making machine there is and always will be an insatiable search for some magic bullet from many people wishing to improve their game - even I -

I read it all and I don't think this is it. Sure you can pick up bits of things from here there and everywhere but you can also over think it and confuse yourself and you run the risk of meddling too much and never developing a solid reliable and consistent technique that you need to play snooker.

Dr Dave's stuff and all these other theories might help some of these Americans play pool - but it detracts from snooker as you don't need to be as consistent or find a rhythm to play pool but to be good at snooker I think that you do.

So practice - work on technique - practice - develop a consistent pre shot routine - practice - set targets - practice - work on building a positive mental approach - practice - prepare well - practice - work on weakness - practice - do solo - practice -

have I mentioned how you improve at snooker?

What nonsense!

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Byrom, you can'nt be serious about this !! I am agree with All Those points you mentioned !! But, how in God's name can you practice on mental thing !! you sound like C Henry !! mental side of the game is just something you have it OR you do'nt have it !! simple as that !! which is why a pro dominating the game for years, while other pro can not even once win a tournament during his entire career !! believe me, is not the technique thing !!! these guys can all run a ton or 147 breaks during thr practice time on the table !!!! Most of them has payed a lot of money to a coach and still, can'nt master this aspect of the game !!
Sum people are mentally strong (compared to others) and can play the Game just as they do'nt care !! is something you're born with it Or not !!
if you really want to improve your game be realistic about yourself and try to accept your level. Cus That's the moment that you can start enjoying the game , my friend !!!
Unless u got something new to add , which in that case I'm glad to hear it !!!

The mental approach is something the greatest of all time has been helped with Ramon, he didn't have it before and Steve Peters taught it to him. Bingo has also blossomed following some work on mental approach. Bingo's technique has improved, he's not cueing across the ball like ten years ago. His break building and long potting have improved. How can the most talented ever improve and how can a technically weak player become world champion?

It's called Coaching

Practice all you want, if you're only doing the things you've always done no improvement is likely. To improve you need to change. Change can come from advice here by TD or from a book or preferably from a coaching sessions. But change must come if people want to improve. People are scared of change; they like to think they can prosper with the tools they have. They are mostly wrong.

Plenty of players have been coached. Plenty still suck.

Coaching doesn't explain it.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

The mind is a complex thing. It influences all sorts of things, from shot selection to state of mind in regards to executing the shot effectively. In whatever we do, the mind is a partner in the enterprise, whether it is decision making, controlling a physical action, or maintaining concentration. Snooker is a more mental game than a physical one (people with a range of body shapes, cue actions, and physical fitness, can all be a 'good' snooker player). Of course the mind can be developed and trained, and of course that can help.

If a player seeks help for the 'mental side of the game', and feels that it helps, then it almost certainly does. Even if the applied techniques are ineffective, it's likely that a player who thinks he is better for it, will be. Tricks of the mind....the smart player makes it work for them. It's no coincidence that top sportsmen, and top salesmen, tend to be open minded, optimistic sorts, who take on new ideas and embrace change. The oft quoted essential 'confidence' that makes a difference is just a state of mind. Of course state of mind without technique is likely to lead to a disconnect in anticipated and actual outcomes....which can have a deleterious effect on state of mind.

State of mind plays a key role in sporting success, and we live in the era where that has first really become widely understood - on a conscious level at least.

Nice post - whoever you are I like your thinking - clearly educated - insightful - intriguing.

Agreed. He said deleterious. On a snooker forum!

[ace man]

then you may wanna tell me, why he was in the final 6 times and he couldn't win!! why he could'nt just get over the edge ( exact on the time when he needed to )
It was the technique thing or mentally ????

None of the above I think. No matter how much I wish he had won it, realistically the odds just weren't in his favour. He was playing 3 super strong players. We all know what Hendry and Davis represent in snooker, but Parrot was also at his peak in 1991. I don't think that Jimmy bottled it at all. He had plenty of great wins in his carrer. 6 World finals is amazing achievment. How many people have had as many high finishes at World Championships? People tend to count only 1st place trophies and forget about overall average performance. Jimmy was a champion alright. Nothing wrong with his technique nor mental strength.
I would sign immediatelly to be 6 times losing World Championships finalist.

[Master Blaster]

Plenty of players have been coached. Plenty still suck.

Coaching doesn't explain it.

Bingo couldn't hit centre ball a decade ago. Now he's world champion. I guess he didn't have intensive coaching on technique, shot selection and mental side of the game in the intervening period.

A season ago Ding was the top dog in snooker, rising briefly to world No.1. Before and during that period I guess he didn't have intensive coaching with Nic Barrow on the approach/mental aspect of the game.

Ronnie used to love to pot, pot, pot, he hated safety. I guess he didn't have sessions with Reardon to become a great safety player and develop the most rounded game the sport has produced? Ronnie has also squared up his stance a bit, copying players like Davis after working with coaches.

Steve Davis used the boxer stance until he happened upon a coach who converted him to foot in line. I guess that coaching is myth. Hendry also copied parts of the Davis set-up so I guess Hendry didn't benefit from the coaching Davis had.

Coaching, it never works!

[Ramon]

None of the above I think. No matter how much I wish he had won it, realistically the odds just weren't in his favour. He was playing 3 super strong players. We all know what Hendry and Davis represent in snooker, but Parrot was also at his peak in 1991. I don't think that Jimmy bottled it at all. He had plenty of great wins in his carrer. 6 World finals is amazing achievment. How many people have had as many high finishes at World Championships? People tend to count only 1st place trophies and forget about overall average performance. Jimmy was a champion alright. Nothing wrong with his technique nor mental strength.
I would sign immediatelly to be 6 times losing World Championships finalist.

you could change mentally in to another person (after visiting a coach) and sum how , turn in S Hendry !! But, unfortunately it does'nt work ithat way in a real world !! otherwise we had now 1500 S Hendry's walking around in the world, instead of one !! But, u can always give it a try !!
Btw, No one said , JW is a bad player !!

[Master Blaster]

you could change mentally in to another person (after visiting a coach) and sum how , turn in S Hendry !! But, unfortunately it does'nt work ithat way in a real world !! otherwise we had now 1500 S Hendry's walking around in the world, instead of one !! But, u can always give it a try !!
Btw, No one said , JW is a bad player !!

Ramon, did Ronnie nearly give up the game when he fell out of love with it? Did he take a year off because he was unhappy. Did the work with mind coach Steve Peter's help him to win another two titles once he'd put the ghosts to bed? You say coaches can't change mentality and to some extent they can't change the person but I believe they can make them tougher, more confident and put winning and losing into perspective. I've read Peter's book and it's obvious how this advice would help someone like Ronnie. If JW had had access to him, he wouldn't have done what he did throughout his career. JW has often said he would go back and do things differently. This tells us that he does not think his attitude and approach to have been correct.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Plenty of players have been coached. Plenty still suck.

Coaching doesn't explain it.

Bingo couldn't hit centre ball a decade ago. Now he's world champion. I guess he didn't have intensive coaching on technique, shot selection and mental side of the game in the intervening period.

A season ago Ding was the top dog in snooker, rising briefly to world No.1. Before and during that period I guess he didn't have intensive coaching with Nic Barrow on the approach/mental aspect of the game.

Ronnie used to love to pot, pot, pot, he hated safety. I guess he didn't have sessions with Reardon to become a great safety player and develop the most rounded game the sport has produced? Ronnie has also squared up his stance a bit, copying players like Davis after working with coaches.

Steve Davis used the boxer stance until he happened upon a coach who converted him to foot in line. I guess that coaching is myth. Hendry also copied parts of the Davis set-up so I guess Hendry didn't benefit from the coaching Davis had.

Coaching, it never works!

You have that wrong. Coaching SOMETIMES works.

[Ramon]

Ramon, did Ronnie nearly give up the game when he fell out of love with it? Did he take a year off because he was unhappy. Did the work with mind coach Steve Peter's help him to win another two titles once he'd put the ghosts to bed? You say coaches can't change mentality and to some extent they can't change the person but I believe they can make them tougher, more confident and put winning and losing into perspective. I've read Peter's book and it's obvious how this advice would help someone like Ronnie. If JW had had access to him, he wouldn't have done what he did throughout his career. JW has often said he would go back and do things differently. This tells us that he does not think his attitude and approach to have been correct.

Not a bad post, this one deserves a replay!
Steve Peter's has helped him for a tournament!! as I said in my previous posts (pay attention please), working with a coach can help you maybe for a short period!! but, there is no coach in the world that can change your for good and forever turn you in totally different person!! you compare JW or ROS with a club player! I compare them with someone of their own level!! IF ROS had the mentality of S Hendry ,,,(given his talent) he had won the WSC 15 times by now !!! but Steve peter's or any other coach could'nt chang that !!
you re what u are my friend ,, the sooner you accept that, the sooner you are able to see your own mistakes, and the sooner you are able to correct them and enjoying your game and as a result: improve
BUT,,, if u think that talking to a coach would help you, then i would say : give it a try !!!