Potting With Side

[pottr]

Ah, my advice to him would be to get a table to himself and try and work out what works for him.

No amount of advice will translate from the page for him yet, he's just not at the level x

[markz]

This thread is confusing to me.

What is the actual debate that's going on?

Where do you want the white?
Oh, you want it there.

Ok, how do you get it there easiest and making sure you get the pot?
Sometimes with side, sometimes without.

Does it really matter? Use side; don't use side... If the white ends up where you want and the ball goes in, who cares?

That sounds easy for a good player. The OP said on a good day he's getting 20-40 breaks as best and was looking for advice on how to pot with side. Easier said than done if your knocking in 20s.

[pottr]

This thread is confusing to me.

What is the actual debate that's going on?

Where do you want the white?
Oh, you want it there.

Ok, how do you get it there easiest and making sure you get the pot?
Sometimes with side, sometimes without.

Does it really matter? Use side; don't use side... If the white ends up where you want and the ball goes in, who cares?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

squarkdrdave, squarkdrdave, squarkdrdave!

Are you trying to say squawk? It's rather difficult to tell with you sometimes, it really is. Mind you, squark is vaguely physics-ish, i suppose.

[focus]

I bet you've never used side to make a ton.

squarkdrdave, squarkdrdave, squarkdrdave!

For me it's an emergency measure, for an advanced billiards player like VMax, a weapon he has known for a long time and used well. If there was a potting with side comp, he'd murder me. It's up to the individual. If you make tons that way, fair play. It requires skill and shouldn't be poo pooed but nor should it be lauded as the saviour. For folk who have trouble making position up and down the CB, side may be tricky and risky. Every coach should say learn up and down CB control first please. It's not about a particular break or number, just very good control of the CB up and down first on most shots. Then introduce side into a game.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Eh? I rarely use side to make a ton.

I bet you've never used side to make a ton.

[focus]

If you habitually use side (ie, all the time), and you're just making nine out of ten, then (statistically) you habitually break down around the thirties on average (think bell curve around points there to be taken easily). Which is where i was....and that's not good enough, surely?

No disrespect intended, but I am most interested in the opinions of people who are actually decent players, rather than people who are just good at having an opinion about everything.

Eh? I rarely use side to make a ton. As Guernsey says, good position trumps using an emergency measure. If you're hitting 30s, side is definitely smething to avoid until you hit 50s. Side, espcially on long pots is advanced stuff. If a coach tells you you should have used side, remind him it only works 7/10. You play the best shot you can, not the best shot that should have been played by a better player. What's the point in missing and giving the table away?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

I rarely play a shot without side, extreme side at that. Explains my fascination with throw etc, i suppose.

Most definitely NOT recommended. But the game is too boring for me to play centre ball.

[guernseygooner]

Up and down the white. If you have to use a lot during break building then work on your break building

[tetricky]

You're not very good, so stick to centre ball. 7/10 isn't enough, it needs to 9/10 in practice or don't use it.

If you habitually use side (ie, all the time), and you're just making nine out of ten, then (statistically) you habitually break down around the thirties on average (think bell curve around points there to be taken easily). Which is where i was....and that's not good enough, surely?

No disrespect intended, but I am most interested in the opinions of people who are actually decent players, rather than people who are just good at having an opinion about everything.

[focus]

Despite some peoples best attempts to make this personal, or drag the thread off topic, I find it fascinating.

I always played with a lot of side. I was inconsistent as a result. Talking to good players when I could, and observing what other people who I played, and what they did well, I reached the conclusion that good players learn the table, angles, and how to get position using centre ball striking (predominantly). Shots with side were more often something done as a specific type of shot (e.g. split the pack off the blue), or as an attempt to correct having run out of position.

The strong preference was to avoid side wherever possible. My own personal experience was that use of side would turn a 9/10 pot into something like a 7/10 pot...or worse.

Am I wrong? Am I actually just not good enough at controlling it, and good players habitually use side...or do most people use side as a fall-back, rather than as a staple? I'm particularly interested in the opinion of good breakbuilders/scorers.....because the number of people suggesting that side be used regularly, as a matter of course, is very surprising to me.

You're not very good, so stick to centre ball. 7/10 isn't enough, it needs to 9/10 in practice or don't use it.

[tetricky]

Despite some peoples best attempts to make this personal, or drag the thread off topic, I find it fascinating.

I always played with a lot of side. I was inconsistent as a result. Talking to good players when I could, and observing what other people who I played, and what they did well, I reached the conclusion that good players learn the table, angles, and how to get position using centre ball striking (predominantly). Shots with side were more often something done as a specific type of shot (e.g. split the pack off the blue), or as an attempt to correct having run out of position.

The strong preference was to avoid side wherever possible. My own personal experience was that use of side would turn a 9/10 pot into something like a 7/10 pot...or worse.

Am I wrong? Am I actually just not good enough at controlling it, and good players habitually use side...or do most people use side as a fall-back, rather than as a staple? I'm particularly interested in the opinion of good breakbuilders/scorers.....because the number of people suggesting that side be used regularly, as a matter of course, is very surprising to me.

[focus]

I'm not worried about potting the yellow centre ball, I play old school snooker, on an old very tight table, heavy napped cloth, and side just comes naturally to me.

I don't use it all the time, I use it when needed, maybe 20% of the time, maybe more, I'm not certain as I don't really think about it, but on that thin yellow I definitely would; slow roll at just above pocket weight with left hand side, and the cue ball will come off the side cushion at a wider angle, pick up a little bit of pace and get you nice and straight on the green.
No fear of centre ball drag shot deceleration which would make you strike a little off centre and swerve the cue ball, you've allowed for off centre striking with your aiming and are using side anyway, no brainer to me.

But we all play differently don't we, that's the trouble with some coaches, it's their way or no way, they don't take criticism very well, however well intentioned, and see criticism where there isn't any due to ego.
Me and j6 and Terry and many others have had arguments in the past, they will no doubt continue, we can't all be right can we ? or can we, the proof is whether we pot the ball and get on the next one, doesn't matter how IMO.
I could play the slow drag shot on a thin yellow, I just naturally get down and roll it in with left hand side, I pot it and I'm on a straightish green, same result, different way of getting there.

And this thread is all about aiming with side, I used j6's video as an example where I or you would use side and he took offence where there was none intended at all.

Yes mate, coaches can be dogmatic and then we find they've only made one ton in their lives. I've heard coaches say don't use foot-in-line others saying foot pointing out is terrible; these are just the basics! Some say use side others say it's only for emergencies on fast cloths. Some will say grip it like a beast others say grip it like a lady would. The problem they have (like all of us humans) is they aren't always right and the don't know the entire big picture. It's the problem of a local maximum (in maths/stats), there's a bigger mountain but because you can't see over the horizon or maybe not even the slope of the hill you're standing on, you don't know a bigger peak exists. They apply what they've found useful, not always what may be useful to the myriad of different humans.

Side is not something I'd use in the ideal Y-B clearance but I'll try it tomorrow. May be useful for a skinny cut yellow and also for green to brown. You say you are very good at billiards. Did you ever play Andress?

[vmax4steve]

i think the thread is about how i like to play the colors, but then to open it up.

This thread is all about aiming with side and I used your excellent video as an example of an alternative rather than search youtube, no offence meant at all, so why take it ?

need means no alternative, to me anyway

Again this ******* thread is about aiming with side and I used your excellent video blah blah blah ............................ is that OK with you, for if it's not I won't do it again.

[j6uk]

no offence, no need