Screwed

[vmax4steve]

If you don't have a decent cue action it is better to start to work with your timing rather than trying to hit very low the white. You would just have lots of miscues. You don't need to hit lower than a tip width below the center ball to get lots of reaction to the white.

Sorry but this is quite wrong, lower the bridge hand so that you're not striking down and the miscues won't happen unless you snatch and have movement on the stroke. The cue must be as parallel to the bed of the table as possible.

If you're getting good reaction from just a tips width below the centre then you're hitting lower than you think.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Sorry but this is quite wrong, lower the bridge hand so that you're not striking down and the miscues won't happen unless you snatch and have movement on the stroke. The cue must be as parallel to the bed of the table as possible.

If you're getting good reaction from just a tips width below the centre then you're hitting lower than you think.

Timing is all when it comes to moving the white - far more important than tip placement. His post was not "quite wrong".

I played 9 ball today for the first time in 2 years, and could barely hold the ball over long distances, let alone get much screw. Nothing wrong with where i was hitting the white...

[ace man]

Timing is all when it comes to moving the white - far more important than tip placement. His post was not "quite wrong".

I played 9 ball today for the first time in 2 years, and could barely hold the ball over long distances, let alone get much screw. Nothing wrong with where i was hitting the white...

But timing is appropriate tip placement, cue speed, cue angle...etc. You may think that you hit the white where you intended, but you most certainly did not. Maybe got scared of the bigger white ball and tightened up a little? It can happen.
If you intend a screw shot, but time the ball "perfectly" for a stun shot by accident, then that's what you will get, a stun shot. The cue ball never lies.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

But timing is appropriate tip placement, cue speed, cue angle...etc. You may think that you hit the white where you intended, but you most certainly did not. Maybe got scared of the bigger white ball and tightened up a little? It can happen.
If you intend a screw shot, but time the ball "perfectly" for a stun shot by accident, then that's what you will get, a stun shot. The cue ball never lies.

I think it's more a question of slowly building up the arm muscles for the extra power needed - my break sucked, too. I often notice it with E8B and snooker players, who can't get through the larger ball as powerfully until they've practiced it a bit. It'll come.

As for tepe's post, he is quite correct - timing trumps tip placement for moving the ball.

[Catch 22]

I play with premiers (128 g) and TCs (141/142 g) on club cloths and it makes no difference, the TC need better timing to get going but they roll longer once started, the premiers white bounces all over the place as its so light and therefore loses its momentum early, well that's how it feels to me anyway, I have no real evidence to prove this, just how I feel the balls react.
I think the biggest lesson to learn is what was hinted at by HemiRR and that's not to leave yourself straight on the black, makes life so much easier.

This is what I find too . The TCs come of the cushion better . Hold momentum on screw shots and follow through much nicer . Wee bit better cuing required but much better

[magicman]

In my experience lighter balls are extremely easy to screw with, but lack weight when going into packs etc. They are, or seem to me, to be more difficult to generate top spin with.

As for screwing the cue-ball: a light grip is essential, as is a lower bridge hand and lower contact on the white. Timing is always necessary whatever the shot!

[vmax4steve]

I think it's more a question of slowly building up the arm muscles for the extra power needed - my break sucked, too. I often notice it with E8B and snooker players, who can't get through the larger ball as powerfully until they've practiced it a bit. It'll come.

As for tepe's post, he is quite correct - timing trumps tip placement for moving the ball.

You can bet your arse that Trump doesn't have powerful arm muscles, and timing and tip placement go together, the quite wrong bit of tepe's post is to strike only a tips width below the centre of the cue ball, that simply isn't low enough for good screwback, especially at distance, you will only get a well timed stun shot.
Leave chalk marks on the table when you screw back.

And I can play with the larger ball, learned my screwback using a snooker cue with a 10mm tip on an Arca pool table with the 2 & 1/4 inch balls and the bigger cue ball, and the secret is to lower the bridge hand and strike low with a smooth action. Boy could I blast the break shot, always hit the front ball from the centre of the D at 3/4 angle on the left striking at 8 o'clock on the cue ball, hardly ever failed to pot one or two or three, sometimes more.

[itsnoteasy]

I've seen more meat on a butchers pencil, as they say, than what's on Trump

[tepe]

You can bet your arse that Trump doesn't have powerful arm muscles, and timing and tip placement go together, the quite wrong bit of tepe's post is to strike only a tips width below the centre of the cue ball, that simply isn't low enough for good screwback, especially at distance, you will only get a well timed stun shot.
Leave chalk marks on the table when you screw back.

Please, don't take my words out of context. The person who started this topic was talking about potting straight blacks which means that we are talking about quite short distance shots. And he said that he can screw back about 4ft.
It shows that he has quite lot to do with his cue action.
I know from my own practise (cos that is not so many years ago) that hitting the white very low doesn't move the white anywhere if your cue action is poor. I tried to hit white very low and with different paces and still got nowhere. But it is much easier to work with cue action if you start with low pace and avoid extreme points of white. When cue action is good you can hit the white anywhere you like.
I'm not saying that there is no need to hit white very low if you want lots of screw. Of course you will get more action to white, but only if your cue action is in decent level.

[Cannonball]

Sorry but this is quite wrong, lower the bridge hand so that you're not striking down and the miscues won't happen unless you snatch and have movement on the stroke. The cue must be as parallel to the bed of the table as possible.

If you're getting good reaction from just a tips width below the centre then you're hitting lower than you think.

This is a controversial point as Ronnie and Selby cue quite high and they've won a fair few world crowns between em and Ronnie ain't (with the help of elbow drop) short of power. But then Judd and Robbo will be lower down and probably do have an edge on power. When we say timing, what we really mean is maximum velocity at the point of impact, creating the maximum, smooth, straight momentum into the bottom of the ball. This is when we achieve max screw. So it's about the timing of the cue from our muscles, not the timing of the CB per se. Because what we intend to do is hit the bottom of the ball as hard as possible.

@tepe: if you strike the CB between the true screw point and say the true stun point, you will achieve a stun-screw. This can be really useful, a way to bring the white back but widen the angle as well. But when you need a true screw shot and you're off straight, you will lose the CB because you didn't play a true screw shot. That's why everyone needs to learn to screw properly, even if you have to spend months learning it. You will also lack screw power.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

You can bet your arse that Trump doesn't have powerful arm muscles, and timing and tip placement go together, the quite wrong bit of tepe's post is to strike only a tips width below the centre of the cue ball, that simply isn't low enough for good screwback, especially at distance, you will only get a well timed stun shot.
Leave chalk marks on the table when you screw back.

And I can play with the larger ball, learned my screwback using a snooker cue with a 10mm tip on an Arca pool table with the 2 & 1/4 inch balls and the bigger cue ball, and the secret is to lower the bridge hand and strike low with a smooth action. Boy could I blast the break shot, always hit the front ball from the centre of the D at 3/4 angle on the left striking at 8 o'clock on the cue ball, hardly ever failed to pot one or two or three, sometimes more.

Lol. The best breakers on planet earth rarely do that.

I shoulda seen the one that got away, huh?

Oh, the arm muscle thing...I'm not talking about muscles as in body builders, rather cue speed and cue power are developed over time, through repetition. There are specific muscles in the arm/shoulder that facilitate this IIRC. Playing nothing but E8B for the last 2years has clearly made mine flabby.

[Cannonball]

Lol. The best breakers on planet earth rarely do that.

I shoulda seen the one that got away, huh?

Oh, the arm muscle thing...I'm not talking about muscles as in body builders, rather cue speed and cue power are developed over time, through repetition. There are specific muscles in the arm/shoulder that facilitate this IIRC. Playing nothing but E8B for the last 2years has clearly made mine flabby.

Muscles play a part because nothing moves without them contracting. What we're talking about here is 'fast' muscle. You don't need a lot to move a 17oz cue and it's more about how fast they twitch w.r.t. cueing and cue power. Judd will have good twitchy muscles to develop smooth speed though. But I've seen plenty who have faster twitch muscles and more cue power than him.

[tepe]

@tepe: if you strike the CB between the true screw point and say the true stun point, you will achieve a stun-screw. This can be really useful, a way to bring the white back but widen the angle as well. But when you need a true screw shot and you're off straight, you will lose the CB because you didn't play a true screw shot. That's why everyone needs to learn to screw properly, even if you have to spend months learning it. You will also lack screw power.

Two things:
1) I agree what you said above
2) I think you and some others misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that for deep screw don't need to hit low white ball. I'm just saying that if you can't screw back more than 1m or so, the problem is usually in your cue action, rather than where you hit the white. And if you want to improve your cue action, it is easier to work with that if you don't try to hit extreme positions of white.
Doing all the things right way is not an easy task. Fix one thing at time and then continue to next one.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Muscles play a part because nothing moves without them contracting. What we're talking about here is 'fast' muscle. You don't need a lot to move a 17oz cue and it's more about how fast they twitch w.r.t. cueing and cue power. Judd will have good twitchy muscles to develop smooth speed though. But I've seen plenty who have faster twitch muscles and more cue power than him.

https://youtu.be/WGUFX-d-Fo4

[Catch 22]

https://youtu.be/WGUFX-d-Fo4

What's this showing ? Yeah he can hit a ball hard but this thread is about sweet timing to get a ball to move with control .

Could he play a long deep screw from baulk ? Would he have the accuracy throwing his body into the shot like that , has he got the timing to pull it off ?

Don't get me wrong , it's an impressive display but doesn't relate to this