New Screw Back Technique

[pottr]

Always play pocket weight, unless you have to play more speed.
There should always be a reason for playing more than pocket speed to keep the average speed as low as possible and therefore the pockets as big as possible.

Not sure I agree.

I prefer to play shots at the weight which allow you to keep your arm moving at a consistent speed and then you can find a groove with your timing. I'd rather play the white on and off the cushion if it means I can hit the ball at a moderate pace rather than trying to hold the white playing pocket weight.

Don't worry about the pocket, just hit the bugger in the middle everytime... That way, all you have to worry about is the white. Positional play should dictate the pace of the strike... Otherwise every pot would just be moderate pace, centre ball regardless of the angle.

[Slasher]

Force = Mass X Acceleration.
So, a cue travelling at the same speed on cue ball impact will impart MORE speed and spin into the cue ball if it is ACCELERATING on impact than if it is travelling at a set speed.
That is why top players START SLOW on the delivery and FINISH FAST, having gradually ACCELERATED all the way through the delivery. This stops rapid over accelerations of the cue which cannot be done without over tightening the hand which in turn guarantees you will pull the cue off the line / height of the cue ball.

Nic, that's not how things work. It does not matter if the cue is accel or decel the reaction is determined by the speed and mass plus the point of contact at the time of impact which lasts around 1/1000th of a second and can vary very slightly with hardness of tip and flex of the shaft determining on how much energy is lost and how much transfers into the CB, again it is a slight variance.
The accelerating arm is to do with muscle control, so long as it is accelerating it remains relaxed, the acceleration usually flattens before CB contact.

[jonny66]

Nic, that's not how things work. It does not matter if the cue is accel or decel the reaction is determined by the speed and mass plus the point of contact at the time of impact which lasts around 1/1000th of a second and can vary very slightly with hardness of tip and flex of the shaft determining on how much energy is lost and how much transfers into the CB, again it is a slight variance.
The accelerating arm is to do with muscle control, so long as it is accelerating it remains relaxed, the acceleration usually flattens before CB contact.

I'm really not sure why you keep pushing this point. You accept that, because of the way the human arm works, acceleration is important. But you keep going on and on about how it's not correct in terms of physics. Nobody plays snooker with anything else but the human arm, so in this case biology is far more important than physics and your point becomes completely irrelevant. In other words, nobody cares.

[Slasher]

Exactly, cue power is all in the grip and how well you time the ball. Any decent player learnt that very early on.

It's not new either, I showed all my mates this exact thing when I was about 17... Didn't have a youtube account and a catchy 'Lettuce' name though

This might drive the point home to a lesser player that you don't have to hit the ball hard but without the necessary timing they'll still have a **** poor screw back shot.

The cue ball has no idea what timing is, timing is all about the players feel and it has no effect on the reaction. If your "Timing" is off you are not striking the intended spot on the cue ball at the intended speed, that is really all that effects the reaction.
Easy experiment for players to try next time they are down the club. Set up in your normal address position on the cue ball, note the distance your tip is from the ball with your back arm in your normal start position (hopefully 90deg ) now try varying this forward or back by moving your set up position (your) whole body so you are addressing the cue ball at different distances but still with your arm in the starting position. Now you would be making contact with the cueball at a different point along the stroke and at a different speed and your brain will not like this one bit, this will give you a feeling of your timing being off.

If you understand the mechanics of what is really happening it makes it much easier to remedy a problem when it arises. I play I know what timing feels like and it is all about finding that groove that you have honed over the years of practice, we are creatures of habits, these would consist of cue speed/accel and point along the stroke at impact. These allow you to consistently strike the white at the intended spot with the intended speed and that is what gets the desired reaction.

[Slasher]

I'm really not sure why you keep pushing this point. You accept that, because of the way the human arm works, acceleration is important. But you keep going on and on about how it's not correct in terms of physics. Nobody plays snooker with anything else but the human arm, so in this case biology is far more important than physics and your point becomes completely irrelevant. In other words, nobody cares.

Do you speak for everyone reading this discussion forum?
It is important when you are trying to improve or fix problems by focusing on things that don't have any effect and in some cases making the problem worse.

[pottr]

If you understand the mechanics of what is really happening it makes it much easier to remedy a problem when it arises. I play I know what timing feels like and it is all about finding that groove that you have honed over the years of practice, we are creatures of habits, these would consist of cue speed/accel and point along the stroke at impact. These allow you to consistently strike the white at the intended spot with the intended speed and that is what gets the desired reaction.

paralysis by analysis

Pick the cue up... hit the white... pot the ball... get on the next ball... All the methodology you need... Oh and practice your bollocks off!

[Slasher]

paralysis by analysis

Pick the cue up... hit the white... pot the ball... get on the next ball... All the methodology you need... Oh and practice your bollocks off!

Yes you can go out and hit millions of balls and get better and yes when you are playing bad you can bang away for months until it "fixes itself" or maybe understanding what you are actually trying to achieve will shorten the learning curve.
Makes you wonder why so many professional sports use all kinds of technology and spend millions to analyse the mechanics of their sport.

"paralysis by analysis" is really only an issue if you do this while down on a shot

[pottr]

"paralysis by analysis" is really only an issue if you do this while down on a shot

I can agree with that.

[Ramon]

Well , this is nice !!

According to Vmax we need a 64 inches cue to play the game of snooker.
According to Slasher, we need a 64 OZ cue to play this game.
and according to potter, all we need is Hit the ball. Striking and acceleration is nonsense. .

We my be better off by launching a cue like that, to North Korea. the impact of a cue like that would be the same as a nuclear weapon.
Start World War 3 .

TSF psychiatric unit (ADR almighty /Master Dean / and Neil "All-Seeing Eye '), GET ready. A room for 3 please.

[Slasher]

Well , this is nice !!

According to Vmax we need a 64 inches cue to play the game of snooker.
According to Slasher, we need a 64 OZ cue to play this game.
and according to potter, all we need is Hit the ball. Striking and acceleration is nonsense. .

We my be better off by launching a cue like that, to North Korea. the impact of a cue like that would be the same as a nuclear weapon.
Start World War 3 .

TSF psychiatric unit (ADR almighty /Master Dean / and Neil "All-Seeing Eye '), GET ready. A room for 3 please.

You forgot all the people that think a cue ball has a conscious mind and has intimate knowledge of which pro player spanked them with a bit of wood and leather, some even claim to have had life changing conversations with said cue ball.

[jonny66]

A few weeks ago, during a frame I decided to adopt a Stephen Hendry type stance that I heard Barry Stark talk about in one of his videos. He used to sit back on his straight leg. I did this and played to screw the ball back 2 feet or so, hit it as I normally would and it came back about 5 feet. So I was a little further back than normal and I got twice the movement hitting the ball with the same force. Maybe I timed the shot better, maybe the cue was accelerating more, maybe my arm was moving faster at that point in my swing. I don't really care, it worked, but the stance kills my leg after about 10 minutes so I can't do it anymore.

[Ramon]

You forgot all the people that think a cue ball has a conscious mind and has intimate knowledge of which pro player spanked them with a bit of wood and leather, some even claim to have had life changing conversations with said cue ball.

sumthing like that is considered as feel the shot.
It's a realy important stage to achiev for any player who wants to play this game in a decent level.imo.

You may not believe this, but I hed read a few of your posts. and my best guess is, you can play well and you have a very good knowledge in regards to this game.

But what you don't understand is sum of our actions are inexplicable according to the science. And that can be applied to sport. (not only snooker, many kind of sport).
Do you realy think sum of the Bruc Lee's actions and some things what he did (sum of the punching power of him) would be possible and explainable according to the rule of Newton ?

anyway. you may be right. I may need to get a room at psychiatric departmnt .
after all, this the way i see it and just my point of view, as well as a interesting topic to talk about.

[Big Splash!]

Jesus effin Christ, 2 pages of total cockwomble bull.

Hit the bottom of the cue ball as hard as you can by accelerating quickly and smoothly along a straight cueing line. That's all there is to it. Nothing else. Don't pump the bottom of the cue ball with a tight grip on the cue, this results in stun-screw. Keep the grip open.

That's what Jimmy White used to do and he is the all time King of Spin. Jimmy doesn't know anything about physics and probably couldn't spell it. Go figure!

[Slasher]

sumthing like that is considered as feel the shot.
It's a realy important stage to achiev for any player who wants to play this game in a decent level.imo.

You may not believe this, but I hed read a few of your posts. and my best guess is, you can play well and you have a very good knowledge in regards to this game.

But what you don't understand is sum of our actions are inexplicable according to the science. And that can be applied to sport. (not only snooker, many kind of sport).
Do you realy think sum of the Bruc Lee's actions and some things what he did (sum of the punching power of him) would be possible and explainable according to the rule of Newton ?

anyway. you may be right. I may need to get a room at psychiatric departmnt .
after all, this the way i see it and just my point of view, as well as a interesting topic to talk about.

Bruce Lee folklore, there's some science for ya lol, it was all nonsense.

[Slasher]

Jesus effin Christ, 2 pages of total cockwomble bull.

Hit the bottom of the cue ball as hard as you can by accelerating quickly and smoothly along a straight cueing line. That's all there is to it. Nothing else. Don't pump the bottom of the cue ball with a tight grip on the cue, this results in stun-screw. Keep the grip open.

That's what Jimmy White used to do and he is the all time King of Spin. Jimmy doesn't know anything about physics and probably couldn't spell it. Go figure!

Apparently many people can't.