Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[Little Reggie]

Less pace Terry, less chance of cueing error.

Call! Indeed, ROS could have tried to screw back four widths but as you say, much higher risk of missing with extreme screw than screw with reverse side; because he can use side. Those that can't would prefer to top spin or screw out of trouble even though they lack the spin up and down to get anywhere. That's where 30 breakers breed, on a flat earth. :biggrin-new:

[itsnoteasy]

Call! Indeed, ROS could have tried to screw back four widths but as you say, much higher risk of missing with extreme screw than screw with reverse side; because he can use side. Those that can't would prefer to top spin or screw out of trouble even though they lack the spin up and down to get anywhere. That's where 30 breakers breed, on a flat earth. :biggrin-new:

I'm not saying Terry is wrong on the subject of using side without a cushion, just offering a reason why some would use it,it's very much down to how a player prefers to play, I'm sure there are pros who when the pressure is on would prefer to cue centre line than have to use side.

[Little Reggie]

I'm not saying Terry is wrong on the subject of using side without a cushion, just offering a reason why some would use it,it's very much down to how a player prefers to play, I'm sure there are pros who when the pressure is on would prefer to cue centre line than have to use side.

Top players at every level are taught to be brave enough to play the right shot at the right time, at the right pace, no more, no less. If side is the best way to make the next ball, that's that. It's not a first or last resort, it's the right resort that counts. But yeah, you do see folk choke and refuse the correct shot; that's lack of confidence and belief. Often accompanied by a snatch, grab, or whack and miss.

[itsnoteasy]

Top players at every level are taught to be brave enough to play the right shot at the right time, at the right pace, no more, no less. If side is the best way to make the next ball, that's that. It's not a first or last resort, it's the right resort that counts.But yeah, you do see folk choke and refuse the correct shot; that's lack of confidence and belief. Often accompanied by a snatch, grab, or whack and miss.

Hey have you been watching me play

[throtts]

That ROS shot is a pretty simple and BASIC .

[Little Reggie]

That ROS shot is a pretty simple and BASIC .

Yes, because you've played it in a world final!

[Little Reggie]

Hey have you been watching me play

Yep, Ronnie can only teach us so much mate. :biggrin-new:

[itsnoteasy]

Yep, Ronnie can only teach us so much mate. :biggrin-new:

If anyone wants to learn the old choke ,snatch, thwack, miss shot, I'm yer man I also do a fantastic," Oh ffs I wasn't even looking at the ball there"

[Terry Davidson]

Willie Thorne used helping side on EVERY shot and vmax has said he prefers to use helping side on all shots, which is what we argued about a couple of years ago on here. I use side when I need it but I prefer not to use side if I can get the cueball where I want it with centre-ball striking. If you use Karnham's black ball as an example he used RH helping side to move the cueball into position and it would have taken only slightly more power to use centre-ball but Karnham insisted he used the RH side to put LH side on the object ball to turn it into the pocket from the side jaw.

I don't believe in transferred side and never have. I do believe you can force OB throw but I don't do that because it's too unpredictable on a snooker table with the smaller margin for error. With large pool pockets and shorter distances it would be more practical to use it without fear of missing the pot. You need a lot of power to throw an object ball on a snooker table which DR. Dave says you get more of it at slower speeds.

I have enough problems just trying to cue straight rather than worring about CIT and all that other stuff. Just put spit on the balls and it will all disappear. I wonder if that's why Alex Higgins used to lick the cueball.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Willie Thorne used helping side on EVERY shot and vmax has said he prefers to use helping side on all shots, which is what we argued about a couple of years ago on here. I use side when I need it but I prefer not to use side if I can get the cueball where I want it with centre-ball striking. If you use Karnham's black ball as an example he used RH helping side to move the cueball into position and it would have taken only slightly more power to use centre-ball but Karnham insisted he used the RH side to put LH side on the object ball to turn it into the pocket from the side jaw.

I don't believe in transferred side and never have. I do believe you can force OB throw but I don't do that because it's too unpredictable on a snooker table with the smaller margin for error. With large pool pockets and shorter distances it would be more practical to use it without fear of missing the pot. You need a lot of power to throw an object ball on a snooker table which DR. Dave says you get more of it at slower speeds.

I have enough problems just trying to cue straight rather than worring about CIT and all that other stuff. Just put spit on the balls and it will all disappear. I wonder if that's why Alex Higgins used to lick the cueball.

Once again, spin transfer.

http://billiards.colostate.edu/high_...ew/HSVA-66.htm

And what do you mean you need a lot of power to throw a ball on a snooker table? Golden rule for throw: maximum throw with soft stun shots, medium amount of side.

[blahblah01]

On the second pic where the force ( from the robot) is traveling one way and striking the black ball , in exactly the same place as the top pic ,we get throw, and the black ball ends up entering the pocket at B instead of hitting the black ball at A, ( anyone remember applied mechanics from school?) call this gearing or whatever but to make it simple I will call it natural throw.

Now introduce spin and the theory goes the black ball should get "thrown "nearer A , now to me this spin isn't creating throw as such,to me it looks like it's lessening the natural throw, so natural throw is B with spin less natural throw so A, it might be it causes less gearing , I don't know but because we are that used to seeing the black go to B we think we have created throw , when in fact we have reduced it.


I forgot one more thing, because we are reducing natural throw, it is also the reason you can hit the black ball slightly thicker to get it to travel to B.
I have no evidence apart from what I have observed as to whether I'm right wrong or even partially right, it's just something off the top of my head and there are far brighter folk than me on here that can dismantle it .

Yep to the above, except if (as according to the leading BBC Snooker Cheerleader DT) kicks only straighten up angles maybe it should be Natural Kick? With Helping Side countering the Natural Kick with a bit of throw to restore the Visual\Natural Angle.

Nearly 40 years ago when we had a 6x3 with quarter sized balls in the Extension, I rarely hit the centre of the CB as 1, there was only really centre and the edges to hit, and 2, (obviously) I was trying to copy Alex. I have started playing this year and having been living the Mantra of Centre Line Striking, and yep it worked, especially as my idea of side etc was EXTREME side, and it is a nightmare. (I should say that in the 7 months that I have been playing I have had 50 Breaks in Practice, and had a 100 point Frame against the regular Weekly Comp winner; but there have been a lot of backward steps in the progression.)

I think that the first time I saw that NicB vid was during this side debacle of thread, or two, and it made sense as I was missing finer cuts straight: so I though sod this Centre Line lark, let's try Helping Side and go back to potting how I did with little balls on straighter pots ie off straight pot to the left, then aim Full OB and hit CB right of centre. Well what an afternoon that was as I descended to potting with side ie seeing just how much I can get with extreme side then all the way to just off centre. It was up there with my only mushroom trip

Obviously, as someone earlier in one of the threads said (something like): "This will freak up your game". It has\did, but only as another Backward Step as my CB control is far better now and my potting is better. Someone posted a vid (with dodgy camera angles etc) which shows how tight the CB can be kept on off straight pots with full ball contact and using side to pot, which is exactly what I am experiencing. (Thinking as I type: this could be why I am following a few OB's into the pocket with the CB )

Do I care if it is the side altering the path or the OB arcing on the way to the OB? Nope, but then I can do it with top, middle and bottom CB striking, so I doubt the Arc Theory, tbh. As long as I can predict it etc, then that is the only relevant aspect, imho. Do people need to know EXACTLY how a car works to drive one?

I dipped out of these threads as the vitriol to TD hit ridiculous levels and it seemed that there are a lot of people arguing about agreeing...

One thing that struck me about TD is this. Most human thought (Science, Philosophy etc) goes through cycles and phases, or Schools of Though, and his "main\hero" coach recoiled at Jack K's use of side and failed all his courses or something? Well the truth is usually somewhere in between the flip-flop of extremes. The new\modern thought is that Helping Side can help? It might be worth remembering that the best Snooker player of the post televised Snooker era with a (good\respectable) background in billiards was Higgins, and there is no way he was tied down to Centre Line striking. But then some may argue that he was a Dinosaur, of the Jack K SChool of Snooker? However, I have watched a bit of ROS since I saw the Murphy and Docherty(?) vid posted about ROS using side on every shot: and it seems to be true, although possibly exaggerated. Is this why people go on about his CB control and what he can do with the CB with little (apparent) effort?

If you are still reading this ramble: the above is due to the appalling TV coverage of Snooker. Why do "Experts" say a bit of side, rather than Left Hand Side or RHS? They should be there to inform and educate, not make 5hite jokes and scream "Where's the CB going?" I consider myself fortunate not to have had to buy a few new TV's top replace the ones with a smashed screen. Also they have Super Slo Mo cameras, so they should use them more!!! DT spunking his pants when he screams "That's a kick" followed by: "See the CB jump". Well Super Slo Mo has shown jumping balls without that hysteria...

It is also shocking that we rarely see a players Cue Hand to see their action.... For me the best Snooker Vids to learn from are the ones of them practicing filmed using a static camera, so I can see side the actions.

Regarding the Spin being transferred: does it do anything even if it does happen? The only vid I have watched that I can remember involves the OB being ariborn having been spanked into a cushion and "curving" round another ball into a pocket for a double. Personally I'd go for the side being added or significantly increased by the force of the impact with the cushion? It's safe to say that I don;t see that becoming a Snooker shot :wink: Back to ROS: and people comment on how he can "rattle" balls and they drop? Well maybe the OB "wobbles" a bit (like a cricket ball can be seen to when bowled with the seam on a certain line etc)? If so: is a wobbling OB more likely to drop?

[travisbickle]

I've done a couple of short vids of the Wilson shot. And a shot for TD about the uses of side without cushions.
Will try and stick them on here sometime tonight

[travisbickle]

I've done a couple of short vids of the Wilson shot. And a shot for TD about the uses of side without cushions.
Will try and stick them on here sometime tonight

https://youtu.be/yqHkX520bLg
https://youtu.be/7F0XQDnGKV8

[Little Reggie]

https://youtu.be/yqHkX520bLg
https://youtu.be/7F0XQDnGKV8

Very nice. If you don't JAB(!) it, it works. You may need to explain to Tel why you put R hand side on the CB when you could clearly see the pink; he won't get this!

[j6uk]

https://youtu.be/yqHkX520bLg
https://youtu.be/7F0XQDnGKV8

few nice shots there travis, and your a smart striker of the ball