Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[j6uk]

I have been watching a lot of snooker on youtube since this string started just to see if in the normal course of normal frames if firstly there are opportunities to use SIT and secondly if the pros do actively use it. So far I've seen many shots where SIT could have been used for better position and I've seen some shots where spin is used but normally it was to broaden the angle off a cushion.

I think snooker players learn pretty quickly it's much better to attempt pots using centre-ball as it's more accurate with the larger table and smaller and less forgiving pockets. My coach was Nic Barrow and that's certainly what he taught his students however he did do some experiments using side while we were there but the problem is you have to play exactly the same shot to exactly the same part of the pocket and believe me that's very difficult, especially if you put 2 balls on the side of the middle pocket. We tried to transfer spin to an object ball (table was a fast match table) with no success but we did manage to get a slight wobble in the OB but nothing which could effect the results of a pot.

thats odd cus iv have no probs on ether the star/aristocrat/slick cloth/g-balls when it comes to using side. iv certainly miss many on those tables with unwanted side, hitting the ball too hard or both

In snooker there are too many things to worry about, like cue delivery, power, height on the CB, control of both pot and CB because the margin for error is so small. As has been said, if you get CIT & SIT into your mind you'll be doing yourself a disfavour. Getting a consistently straight cue delivery is hard enough.

a few words of concern that could simply be changed tel, from negative to positive. replace the words in bold above to something positive then your paragraph could read more optimistic and encouraging., so at lease not to bring any mind or body tension to the table.
example: theres nothing to worry about. you can/do cue straight, time the white well and stay still on the shot. you dont need to hit the ball too hard, because pace is generated though timing..
oh and you can turn that ball in or straighten it up by going outside the center of the white.




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[Terry Davidson]

I have been watching a lot of snooker on youtube since this string started just to see if in the normal course of normal frames if firstly there are opportunities to use SIT and secondly if the pros do actively use it. So far I've seen many shots where SIT could have been used for better position and I've seen some shots where spin is used but normally it was to broaden the angle off a cushion.

I think snooker players learn pretty quickly it's much better to attempt pots using centre-ball as it's more accurate with the larger table and smaller and less forgiving pockets. My coach was Nic Barrow and that's certainly what he taught his students however he did do some experiments using side while we were there but the problem is you have to play exactly the same shot to exactly the same part of the pocket and believe me that's very difficult, especially if you put 2 balls on the side of the middle pocket. We tried to transfer spin to an object ball (table was a fast match table) with no success but we did manage to get a slight wobble in the OB but nothing which could effect the results of a pot.

In snooker there are too many things to worry about, like cue delivery, power, height on the CB, control of both pot and CB because the margin for error is so small. As has been said, if you get CIT & SIT into your mind you'll be doing yourself a disfavour. Getting a consistently straight cue delivery is hard enough.

[travisbickle]

The theory is the spin on the CB causes the 2 balls to 'cling' together for a small amount of time which allows the OB to spin a few degrees so the final contact point between the 2 balls is altered by a few degrees. So therefore the OB must spin at least a little and the question becomes is that small variation enough to cause SIT? Biggie says 'forget spin transfer for snooker'. If there's no spin transfer there cannot be any SIT and your spinning CB actually attacked the potting point usually to the side of the pocket.

Explain what happens with SIT in snooker if you don't transfer at least a little bit of spin to the OB. I will agree with Biggie all day that these things happen on a pool table and happen in pool quite a lot. In snooker I'm not so sure as I've tried to impart spin on an object ball and I can't get enough to effect the OB sufficiently to cause it to turn.

From a coach's perspective when a student asks how these shots are accomplished it's much easier to understand the theory the CB curves into the potting point, not necessarily exactly BOB but close to it which is why a lot of these shots go to the side of the pocket. In your case with the pink you cut to the other side of the pocket you either over-cooked it or misjudged the pace and hit too slow for the spin applied. Students would understand my explanation much easier and with that understanding would be able to accomplish the shots. Of course I would attempt to explain your SIT theory as another possible cause because I believe in giving the student everything I know but I wouldn't want to confuse the student as I can give him an understanding of what he's trying to do.

I have no idea what happens on contact but there is a reaction that causes the OB to throw left or right. After contact as far as I can tell there is no spin on the OB.

That shot on the pool table is easily done in a snooker table.
Balls are balls, it's all the same.

[Terry Davidson]

Great stuff Jason. Thanks.
if this could be filmed in slo mo replacing cue ball and black with spoted training balls it could actually prove SIT exists (or not) the turn would be visible right?

I would like to see the OB turning on a snooker table. I can easily see it on the videos on a pool table but as I've tried it with a spotted CB as my OB I can detect any turning over of the spots. It might be happening however it is so slight that it's hard to see. I did watch Jason's video at .25speed but with monochrome OB too hard to see.

One interesting experiment I did yesterday was to put a smear of chalk on my spotted OB and it did turn over, still not a lot but at least visible.

[Cue crafty]

yeah maybe but there have been vids showing this on the thread so, a bit of a waist of time. unless someone like their filing super slow mo time based media stuff, im more into the playing and learning side of things

Yup fair doo's. I've never thought about this before and want to forget it completely next time I play. Fact that you can cheat an angle is good enough for me.

[Terry Davidson]

I agree a few on here will never see the real picture. It's their lose mind. You know what they say about old dogs...

I thought the other saying was 'respect your elders'.

[Terry Davidson]

Spin causes the OB to throw. I've never mentioned spinning object balls

The theory is the spin on the CB causes the 2 balls to 'cling' together for a small amount of time which allows the OB to spin a few degrees so the final contact point between the 2 balls is altered by a few degrees. So therefore the OB must spin at least a little and the question becomes is that small variation enough to cause SIT? Biggie says 'forget spin transfer for snooker'. If there's no spin transfer there cannot be any SIT and your spinning CB actually attacked the potting point usually to the side of the pocket.

Explain what happens with SIT in snooker if you don't transfer at least a little bit of spin to the OB. I will agree with Biggie all day that these things happen on a pool table and happen in pool quite a lot. In snooker I'm not so sure as I've tried to impart spin on an object ball and I can't get enough to effect the OB sufficiently to cause it to turn.

From a coach's perspective when a student asks how these shots are accomplished it's much easier to understand the theory the CB curves into the potting point, not necessarily exactly BOB but close to it which is why a lot of these shots go to the side of the pocket. In your case with the pink you cut to the other side of the pocket you either over-cooked it or misjudged the pace and hit too slow for the spin applied. Students would understand my explanation much easier and with that understanding would be able to accomplish the shots. Of course I would attempt to explain your SIT theory as another possible cause because I believe in giving the student everything I know but I wouldn't want to confuse the student as I can give him an understanding of what he's trying to do.

[j6uk]

Great stuff Jason. Thanks.
if this could be filmed in slo mo replacing cue ball and black with spoted training balls it could actually prove SIT exists (or not) the turn would be visible right?

yeah maybe but there have been vids showing this on the thread so, a bit of a waist of time. unless someone like their filing super slow mo time based media stuff, im more into the playing and learning side of things

[Terry Davidson]

Glad she is ok, of course she could be miles away from Parsons Green as London is about 30 miles across

Didn't know where Parsons Green is exactly plus her and her sister are traipsing all over London visiting galleries and touristy sites so I wanted to be sure she is OK.

[throtts]

This thread has 25k of views, shocks, hahaha..

[Cue crafty]

pretty straight forward stuff when a player has learned to cue a bit.. but yeah okay as long as your happy im happy, another pina colada on deck foe you?

Great stuff Jason. Thanks.
if this could be filmed in slo mo replacing cue ball and black with spoted training balls it could actually prove SIT exists (or not) the turn would be visible right?

[Ramon]

Nice Vid Jason !!

For anyone who cares or interested , this is also interesting .
Would be more interesting if you read his statment regarding what happens as well .

Watch what happens between 0.40 and 1.40 ( the plant aint lined up stright to the pocket )

[throtts]

I do not use these shots frequently but will say that when I was toying with the blacks I found out quickly that a lose grip was paramount. You can really feel the shot through the butt of your cue and on to your grip hand and as soon as you hit the CB you know if its a good hit or not..

[travisbickle]

When I was potting the 3/4 blacks yesterday and trying to hold the spot I stated LH side held 1 ball width away from the black spot after I sank the black. When I tried RH side, as Jason just used, I see the CB run on pretty much exactly as Jasons did after he potted the black in his ""turn it in pt2"". So, its consistent with my findings yesterday in effect too.

This thread will never come to an agreement thats for sure.

Thanks for the vid, Jason. Its very informative.

I agree a few on here will never see the real picture. It's their lose mind. You know what they say about old dogs...

[throtts]

When I was potting the 3/4 blacks yesterday and trying to hold the spot I stated LH side held 1 ball width away from the black spot after I sank the black. When I tried RH side, as Jason just used, I see the CB run on pretty much exactly as Jasons did after he potted the black in his ""turn it in pt2"". So, its consistent with my findings yesterday in effect too.

This thread will never come to an agreement thats for sure.

Thanks for the vid, Jason. Its very informative.