Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[throtts]

Physics is universal, does not exclude billiards.

The players that can play these shots do not give a hoot about Physics, buddy. If the OB drops in that pocket then all is hunky dory.

It also depends on what type of cueist one is. Some are floaters and some are hard hitters, some do not mind a high % of half table shots in a frame and some like to keep tight.

All players fancy different shots more than others and this would reflect their upbringing in the game which is what we are seeing in these threads..

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

The players that can play these shots do not give a hoot about Physics, buddy. If the OB drops in that pocket then all is hunky dory.

It also depends on what type of cueist one is. Some are floaters and some are hard hitters, some do not mind a high % of half table shots in a frame and some like to keep tight.

All players fancy different shots more than others and this would reflect their upbringing in the game which is what we are seeing in these threads..

No it isn't. What we are seeing is monumental and willful ignorance.

[throtts]

No it isn't. What we are seeing is monumental and willful ignorance.

Good Morning..

[Terry Davidson]

Why is it necessary to prove the existence or not of SIT? If you can perform the shots it doesn't matter. Travis can perform the shots and I can too but not as well as he does. Whether it's SIT or not doesn't matter.

What concerns me is Biggies constant insults just because I don't believe what he believes. I've been called monumentally stupid and monumentally ignorant along with a lot of other insults. Biggie tries too hard to get his point across, 'methinks he doth protest too much'.

I don't believe in SIT and I see a host of still photos on here that don't account for the fact that the CB is curving a little and that's why you can't see the CB directly behind the OB because you don't understand how the leading edge is changed. The Jimmy White shot is a great example of that but again who cares what I believe. Apparantly Biggie and Travis so why don't you two just forget about me and continue to give your advice to your fellow travelers.

[blahblah01]

Have you run the shot at approx 2"30 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRhs8Bit0ng through Kinovea?

It looks to be like it should miss left (from your side) and the side moves it to the right from where it should go.

As above: I agree about "if it works for a player", but you are missing a trick if you think it is easier to hold a CB using non-helping side.

[Terry Davidson]

Have you run the shot at approx 2"30 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRhs8Bit0ng through Kinovea?

It looks to be like it should miss left (from your side) and the side moves it to the right from where it should go.

As above: I agree about "if it works for a player", but you are missing a trick if you think it is easier to hold a CB using non-helping side.

I'm just happy to get up each morning healthy and have a chance to ignore all the 'experts' on here who have the latest theory. I would have used straight drag on that shot with no side and it doesn't show anything but a straight forward pot. You try playing well when at the same time you are commentating on what you're doing.

[travisbickle]

Why is it necessary to prove the existence or not of SIT? If you can perform the shots it doesn't matter. Travis can perform the shots and I can too but not as well as he does. Whether it's SIT or not doesn't matter.

What concerns me is Biggies constant insults just because I don't believe what he believes. I've been called monumentally stupid and monumentally ignorant along with a lot of other insults. Biggie tries too hard to get his point across, 'methinks he doth protest too much'.

I don't believe in SIT and I see a host of still photos on here that don't account for the fact that the CB is curving a little and that's why you can't see the CB directly behind the OB because you don't understand how the leading edge is changed. The Jimmy White shot is a great example of that but again who cares what I believe. Apparantly Biggie and Travis so why don't you two just forget about me and continue to give your advice to your fellow travelers.

Because you & vmax keep saying the only way to pot the OB is correct BOB which is not correct.
So you are misleading people who want to learn about more advanced shots.
Is that ok?

[Terry Davidson]

Because you & vmax keep saying the only way to pot the OB is correct BOB which is not correct.
So you are misleading people who want to learn about more advanced shots.
Is that ok?

Yes Travis that's fine but what you and Biggy have done is show average players a very skilled shot which is beyond most of them. The most important thing for a learning player to accomplish is to learn how to deliver the cue straight. I've seen in this string and the other one players showing their lack of knowledge even on whether a cueball throws when side is used (I'm not talking about you here). Snooker players have been bending balls for over 100 years but although they knew and know how to use spin in these shots they have never heard of CIT & SIT and to every one of them the terminology doesn't matter nor does it matter that they understand the physics.

You are a player who runs 2 or more tons as week and I think that puts you beyond virtually all the players on here. I doubt pottr or j6uk now run 2 a week, nor do vmax and myself. We all may have at one time but age and lack of practice and playing have caught up with us. Look at Ramon, who says his high break is 16. Do you really think he's ready to use side the way you do? I would like to see players avoid as much as possible the use of specialized side until the time they can deliver a cue consistently straight which usually takes a very long time of constant practice and then they can graduate to these more specialized skills.

Object ball throw has quite a few problems which have become apparent in this discussion. First of all we all have shown we see the availability of a shot differently as I disagreed with both j6uk and Oma regarding how much of the ball could be seen. Now layer on the facts that too much speed and too much spin negate the shot and also as you so aptly demonstrate you have to hit the OB at dead pocket weight in order for it to work. In the end two players can look at a shot and come to a different conclusion, besides which potting a black at dead weight is playing very negatively as you're just grabbing the 7 points with no hope of getting position unless there's a ball over the pocket somewhere. (I'm not talking about throwing a ball in with side with a lot of pace like Oma's.) See where his cueball ended up, so he was able to pot the ball with side but more power so by your own rules no SIT helped his shot. And it mostly went centre-pocket. However, Oma is convinced SIT played a part, more power to him.

Leave these specialized shots to pool where the average player can use them because of the large margin of error.

[j6uk]

Yes Travis that's fine but what you and Biggy have done is show average players a very skilled shot which is beyond most of them. The most important thing for a learning player to accomplish is to learn how to deliver the cue straight. I've seen in this string and the other one players showing their lack of knowledge even on whether a cueball throws when side is used (I'm not talking about you here). Snooker players have been bending balls for over 100 years but although they knew and know how to use spin in these shots they have never heard of CIT & SIT and to every one of them the terminology doesn't matter nor does it matter that they understand the physics.

You are a player who runs 2 or more tons as week and I think that puts you beyond virtually all the players on here. I doubt pottr or j6uk now run 2 a week, nor do vmax and myself. We all may have at one time but age and lack of practice and playing have caught up with us. Look at Ramon, who says his high break is 16. Do you really think he's ready to use side the way you do? I would like to see players avoid as much as possible the use of specialized side until the time they can deliver a cue consistently straight which usually takes a very long time of constant practice and then they can graduate to these more specialized skills.

Object ball throw has quite a few problems which have become apparent in this discussion. First of all we all have shown we see the availability of a shot differently as I disagreed with both j6uk and Oma regarding how much of the ball could be seen. Now layer on the facts that too much speed and too much spin negate the shot and also as you so aptly demonstrate you have to hit the OB at dead pocket weight in order for it to work. In the end two players can look at a shot and come to a different conclusion, besides which potting a black at dead weight is playing very negatively as you're just grabbing the 7 points with no hope of getting position unless there's a ball over the pocket somewhere. (I'm not talking about throwing a ball in with side with a lot of pace like Oma's.) See where his cueball ended up, so he was able to pot the ball with side but more power so by your own rules no SIT helped his shot. And it mostly went centre-pocket. However, Oma is convinced SIT played a part, more power to him.

Leave these specialized shots to pool where the average player can use them because of the large margin of error.

without getting too technical tel, say if your on a straight black and you can only see 3/4 of it do you go for it or not? if not why not?

[travisbickle]

Yes Travis that's fine but what you and Biggy have done is show average players a very skilled shot which is beyond most of them. The most important thing for a learning player to accomplish is to learn how to deliver the cue straight. I've seen in this string and the other one players showing their lack of knowledge even on whether a cueball throws when side is used (I'm not talking about you here). Snooker players have been bending balls for over 100 years but although they knew and know how to use spin in these shots they have never heard of CIT & SIT and to every one of them the terminology doesn't matter nor does it matter that they understand the physics.

You are a player who runs 2 or more tons as week and I think that puts you beyond virtually all the players on here. I doubt pottr or j6uk now run 2 a week, nor do vmax and myself. We all may have at one time but age and lack of practice and playing have caught up with us. Look at Ramon, who says his high break is 16. Do you really think he's ready to use side the way you do? I would like to see players avoid as much as possible the use of specialized side until the time they can deliver a cue consistently straight which usually takes a very long time of constant practice and then they can graduate to these more specialized skills.

Object ball throw has quite a few problems which have become apparent in this discussion. First of all we all have shown we see the availability of a shot differently as I disagreed with both j6uk and Oma regarding how much of the ball could be seen. Now layer on the facts that too much speed and too much spin negate the shot and also as you so aptly demonstrate you have to hit the OB at dead pocket weight in order for it to work. In the end two players can look at a shot and come to a different conclusion, besides which potting a black at dead weight is playing very negatively as you're just grabbing the 7 points with no hope of getting position unless there's a ball over the pocket somewhere. (I'm not talking about throwing a ball in with side with a lot of pace like Oma's.) See where his cueball ended up, so he was able to pot the ball with side but more power so by your own rules no SIT helped his shot. And it mostly went centre-pocket. However, Oma is convinced SIT played a part, more power to him.

Leave these specialized shots to pool where the average player can use them because of the large margin of error.

Not everyone is a beginner on here.
Judging by some of the comments I've seen on all 3 threads there is a lot of players who's game has improved knowing what OBs do when you use side without cushions.
I've never said these were shots for beginners at any time, but there is no harm in trying these shots out in practise.
It will only make you a better player in the long run.

[throtts]

Ive been playing very slightly just off straight in blacks ( top cush side ) with power and a touch of LHS ( tip just left of dead centre on CB ) for some time. It appears to just give the CB a bit of energy to get it up for reds in between the black and pink. Of course its got to be hit sweetly with sweet follow through, saves you doing a power screw back if its not beneficial. Again, not a beginners shot, plus my table is tight but it gains me great position.

[vmax]

Sounds like a great shot, slow swerve to make pot and get on the blue. Was the blue still on its spot? Serious amount of side at low pace to get position. Congrats on your first win as well vmax.

The same shot as j6's first turn it in video but played a bit harder to go up for the blue, dead easy really when you've been playing with side for nearly forty years and know what the cue ball is going to do. Biggie and travis are somehow deluded that I struggle to make a 30 break, but the fact is my highest match break is 86 and I had a total clearance in practise once and have made many 50's 60's and 70's. OK so not two centuries a week, but I take that with a pinch of salt from someone of that alledged standard who doesn't let on who he is and posts a few easy side shot videos that I was making when I was 17 a week after being shown how to do it from an old billiards bloke who played in our pool team, basic stuff really.
If I was making two or more tons a week everyone would know who I was and I'd have the trophies to prove it too, and for the likes of Ramon to have a dig, really, highest break of 16 and he has the nerve to preach to me :hopelessness: nothing short of embarrassing himself.

When you know what side does to the OB, you can use it to your advantage. If you don't know what it does to the OB, you'll forever go 'oh damn, i got a bad contact there', when you should be saying 'oh damn, i put unintentional side spin on the cue ball which caused the OB to veer off line slightly due to the frictional force of a spinning object hitting a stationary object - I'll be much more careful next time'.

Ignorance is bliss, huh?

Actually biggie, striking the cue ball unitentionally off the vertical centre line results in deflection off the line of aim (watch that predator video I linked to again) and that's why the OB is missed if you're not compensating your aiming to allow for it as you do when deliberately striking off the vertical centre line on the cue ball as you do when playing with side. Thought you could play with side biggie, sounds again like you haven't a cue.

[tomwalker147]

You are a player who runs 2 or more tons as week and I think that puts you beyond virtually all the players on here. I doubt pottr or j6uk now run 2 a week, nor do vmax and myself. We all may have at one time but age and lack of practice and playing have caught up with us. Look at Ramon, who says his high break is 16. Do you really think he's ready to use side the way you do?

Yes apparently Ramon is ready Terry. His highest break is 16 yet he's bending balls in to make them pottable. This whole topic makes me laugh, it's farcical.

[tomwalker147]

I didn't realize you were from Nuneaton Tom, like pottr although he said he played with you recently. I've played Mick Price in the Attak(?) snooker club and I remember on the table we were on the brown to centre pocket had a horrific roll so I'm blaming that as Mick beat me if I remember rightly. Too bad Mick's claim to fame was as the opponent for Ronnie's fastest ever 147. We used to travel to the pro ticket tournaments together where he qualified in 1987 I think and I missed by one match against (damn, his name escapes me although I heard he later slit his wrists but didn't succeed).

Hi Terry, I am indeed I've been playing in the Atack since I was around 7 years old and now run a side from there in the Coventry league on wednesday nights... I play with Pottr on thursday's in the nuneaton league too. I can remember watching Mick practice, he's a lovely guy only recently dropped out of our local league. We have a laugh about that 147 although it does annoy him a bit I think, he was a real brilliant player in his own right, it's a shame he's just remembered for that by snooker fans.

[Ramon]

Yes apparently Ramon is ready Terry. His highest break is 16 yet he's bending balls in to make them pottable. This whole topic makes me laugh, it's farcical.

Hi Terry, I am indeed I've been playing in the Atack since I was around 7 years old and now run a side from there in the Coventry league on wednesday nights... I play with Pottr on thursday's in the nuneaton league too. I can remember watching Mick practice, he's a lovely guy only recently dropped out of our local league. We have a laugh about that 147 although it does annoy him a bit I think, he was a real brilliant player in his own right, it's a shame he's just remembered for that by snooker fans.

Well , one thing is for sure ,

This idiot Ramon got to you very bad , by the look of it .

Glad you can play well , but not realy relevant to this topic .

Keep up the good work .