Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[Terry Davidson]

Willie Thorne used helping side on EVERY shot and vmax has said he prefers to use helping side on all shots, which is what we argued about a couple of years ago on here. I use side when I need it but I prefer not to use side if I can get the cueball where I want it with centre-ball striking. If you use Karnham's black ball as an example he used RH helping side to move the cueball into position and it would have taken only slightly more power to use centre-ball but Karnham insisted he used the RH side to put LH side on the object ball to turn it into the pocket from the side jaw.

I don't believe in transferred side and never have. I do believe you can force OB throw but I don't do that because it's too unpredictable on a snooker table with the smaller margin for error. With large pool pockets and shorter distances it would be more practical to use it without fear of missing the pot. You need a lot of power to throw an object ball on a snooker table which DR. Dave says you get more of it at slower speeds.

I have enough problems just trying to cue straight rather than worring about CIT and all that other stuff. Just put spit on the balls and it will all disappear. I wonder if that's why Alex Higgins used to lick the cueball.

[itsnoteasy]

Yep, Ronnie can only teach us so much mate. :biggrin-new:

If anyone wants to learn the old choke ,snatch, thwack, miss shot, I'm yer man I also do a fantastic," Oh ffs I wasn't even looking at the ball there"

[Little Reggie]

Hey have you been watching me play

Yep, Ronnie can only teach us so much mate. :biggrin-new:

[Little Reggie]

That ROS shot is a pretty simple and BASIC .

Yes, because you've played it in a world final!

[throtts]

That ROS shot is a pretty simple and BASIC .

[itsnoteasy]

Top players at every level are taught to be brave enough to play the right shot at the right time, at the right pace, no more, no less. If side is the best way to make the next ball, that's that. It's not a first or last resort, it's the right resort that counts.But yeah, you do see folk choke and refuse the correct shot; that's lack of confidence and belief. Often accompanied by a snatch, grab, or whack and miss.

Hey have you been watching me play

[Little Reggie]

I'm not saying Terry is wrong on the subject of using side without a cushion, just offering a reason why some would use it,it's very much down to how a player prefers to play, I'm sure there are pros who when the pressure is on would prefer to cue centre line than have to use side.

Top players at every level are taught to be brave enough to play the right shot at the right time, at the right pace, no more, no less. If side is the best way to make the next ball, that's that. It's not a first or last resort, it's the right resort that counts. But yeah, you do see folk choke and refuse the correct shot; that's lack of confidence and belief. Often accompanied by a snatch, grab, or whack and miss.

[itsnoteasy]

Call! Indeed, ROS could have tried to screw back four widths but as you say, much higher risk of missing with extreme screw than screw with reverse side; because he can use side. Those that can't would prefer to top spin or screw out of trouble even though they lack the spin up and down to get anywhere. That's where 30 breakers breed, on a flat earth. :biggrin-new:

I'm not saying Terry is wrong on the subject of using side without a cushion, just offering a reason why some would use it,it's very much down to how a player prefers to play, I'm sure there are pros who when the pressure is on would prefer to cue centre line than have to use side.

[Little Reggie]

Less pace Terry, less chance of cueing error.

Call! Indeed, ROS could have tried to screw back four widths but as you say, much higher risk of missing with extreme screw than screw with reverse side; because he can use side. Those that can't would prefer to top spin or screw out of trouble even though they lack the spin up and down to get anywhere. That's where 30 breakers breed, on a flat earth. :biggrin-new:

[itsnoteasy]

Yes, Reggie side is used by a lot of us frequently so why bother with the comment? My OPINION is if you don't need to use side for gaining better position why bother as it makes the shot more difficult (ever seen Ronnie use side on a shot where no cushion contact is involved?) as if there's no cushion involved you can achieve the same thing using height and power with centre-ball striking and you don't have to judge things like aim-off and OB throw if it exists.

Less pace Terry, less chance of cueing error.

[Terry Davidson]

Yes, Reggie side is used by a lot of us frequently so why bother with the comment? My OPINION is if you don't need to use side for gaining better position why bother as it makes the shot more difficult (ever seen Ronnie use side on a shot where no cushion contact is involved?) as if there's no cushion involved you can achieve the same thing using height and power with centre-ball striking and you don't have to judge things like aim-off and OB throw if it exists.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Trying clearing these balls without side, I dare you! How are you going to get back to blue at 3:52 without side? Erm, well........................................no. Plenty of side in this wonderful break.

Brilliant break, obviously, but not as good as selby's imo. Selby played worldy after worldy, with a greater range of shot.

[itsnoteasy]

having trouble with pics.


Right here is my theory, as you can see from the first pic, if you played straight through the line the black will hit the black, this is because all the forces are in a direct line, there is no throw on a straight shot( I'm hoping we can all agree on that )
On the second pic where the force ( from the robot) is traveling one way and striking the black ball , in exactly the same place as the top pic ,we get throw, and the black ball ends up entering the pocket at B instead of hitting the black ball at A, ( anyone remember applied mechanics from school?) call this gearing or whatever but to make it simple I will call it natural throw.
Now introduce spin and the theory goes the black ball should get "thrown "nearer A , now to me this spin isn't creating throw as such,to me it looks like it's lessening the natural throw, so natural throw is B with spin less natural throw so A, it might be it causes less gearing , I don't know but because we are that used to seeing the black go to B we think we have created throw , when in fact we have reduced it.
This also explains the reason why Vmaxs video is pointless because he's trying to create or lessen throw on a shot that has no throw to begin with as he set the shot up straight and I'm hoping we agreed at the start there is no throw on a straight shot because all the forces are going in the same direction, it's also the point I tried to make to Ted, when he set his shot up at an angle then played it as a straight shot. I believe this shot can only be played off a shot that has natural throw built into it.
I forgot one more thing, because we are reducing natural throw, it is also the reason you can hit the black ball slightly thicker to get it to travel to B.
I have no evidence apart from what I have observed as to whether I'm right wrong or even partially right, it's just something off the top of my head and there are far brighter folk than me on here that can dismantle it .

[Little Reggie]

Trying clearing these balls without side, I dare you! How are you going to get back to blue at 3:52 without side? Erm, well........................................no. Plenty of side in this wonderful break.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Side is more usable on those bucket pocket pool tables, on Pro spec Snooker tables its risky. The last Mosconi Cup table pockets were vacuuming loads up - loads of room for error on them.

You can thank Barry Hearn for that - spent a couple of hours with the guy that fits then recently and he said it was Hearn's spec, same for all matchroom events. Those tables are a joke and not at all representative of the tables used in most pro competitions. But you are right, the pockets are big because the game is based on spin.

Anyway, we all know new cloths are preferable to big pockets, don't we?