Amatuer league miss rule

[itsnoteasy]

If you have any integrity or honesty you will call a miss on yourself, you know if you have made the best effort you can. I would go as far as to say every single player in our league would call a miss on themselves, and even when it's called by the ref, they would not argue about it, it's not up for discussion , it's a refereeing decision, neither of the players have any input into it. If you don't call a miss or any foul you have committed,go and find something else to play, you're not wanted in the snooker world.

[tomwalker147]

If you have any integrity or honesty you will call a miss on yourself, you know if you have made the best effort you can. I would go as far as to say every single player in our league would call a miss on themselves, and even when it's called by the ref, they would not argue about it, it's not up for discussion , it's a refereeing decision, neither of the players have any input into it. If you don't call a miss or any foul you have committed,go and find something else to play, you're not wanted in the snooker world.

Thumbs up from me!

[acesinc]

If you have any integrity or honesty you will call a miss on yourself, you know if you have made the best effort you can. I would go as far as to say every single player in our league would call a miss on themselves, and even when it's called by the ref, they would not argue about it, it's not up for discussion , it's a refereeing decision, neither of the players have any input into it. If you don't call a miss or any foul you have committed,go and find something else to play, you're not wanted in the snooker world.

All very true, no argument from me. However, even you are a complete optimist and can only see the glass half full, you have negated at least 70 percent of the human population from ever playing a frame on the green baize. As I am a realist, I would put the percentage far higher myself. But I would rather grow the game and invite more players in, integrity or no, rather than constricting game play only to those of the highest moral caliber. To paraphrase something I have read, "Snooker may not build character. But it sure will reveal it!"

Surely, the modern Foul and Miss rule as written is a pessimistic view of even the professional players. If they all had exemplary character the rule would not be required at all.

I don't know exactly who is responsible for creating and maintaining the authoritarian Rules of Snooker. Is it the WPBSA? Is it the IBSF? Is it a collaboration of the two? Is it a sub-committee in one or the other of these organizations? Maybe it is an old man living in a shack on a far off world who is kind to his cat whom he calls "The Lord"?

But if anyone who has anything to do with writing and maintaining the Rules ever reads these posts, then know this. The "Foul and a Miss" rule as currently written works perfectly fine for professional snooker players in a professionally refereed match. However, those professional matches are an extraordinarily tiny percentage of all of the snooker which is being played across the planet by regular people in regular circumstances. For every cantankerous F&M saga that we read about on snooker forums such as this, there are thousands of F&M negative scenarios unfolding that no one else knows about except the people involved. Rules should be clear, concise, and universally applicable. Otherwise, it's a bad rule. By that definition, the Foul and a Miss rule as currently written is a bad rule. Even in my own tiny little microcosm of a snooker club, we once had a sour situation with the F&M which, had the wrong personalities been involved, may well have led to fisticuffs and further trouble.

Amateur leagues wish to aspire to exactly the same Rule Set as used by the Professional Elite. If this fact is recognized and steps are properly taken to assure that the Rule Set can be fairly applied to any level of play, then this rule must be changed in one of two ways: either a) create two versions of the rule, one to apply at the Professional level and a second to apply at the non-Professional level, or b) modify the rule from its current form in some way so that it may apply to Snooker at all levels as written.

I would prefer to see b) and I believe I have made my reasoning clear.

[Cue crafty]

If you have any integrity or honesty you will call a miss on yourself, you know if you have made the best effort you can. I would go as far as to say every single player in our league would call a miss on themselves, and even when it's called by the ref, they would not argue about it, it's not up for discussion , it's a refereeing decision, neither of the players have any input into it. If you don't call a miss or any foul you have committed,go and find something else to play, you're not wanted in the snooker world.

Here Here!!

[itsnoteasy]

I don't think you can grow the game inviting cheats and folk who harass referees, as all that happens is the gentlemen and fair play brigade will leave and then you are left with folk who argue and cheat and the game just dies. Snooker can build character, if you are told there is a certain level expected of you and if you don't or won't conform to it( respecting your opponent, the ref ,the table and equipment, it's not a lot to ask) you are not welcome, go and do something that's more suited to your character.
If pros can call fouls on themselves and accept referees decisions without argument and it's their livelihood on the line, I don't think it's too much to ask a bunch of amateurs who have absoloutly nothing riding on it except at most a point or a plastic trophy to do the same.
Our league is self policed, its up to us all to maintain standards, don't let them slip, then situations don't occur, or are very rare.
I said before if you are not that good a standard just have a basic three points to judge a miss, 1 ,if you can see the ball it's a miss, 2, if there are a load of reds on the table, it's a miss, 3, if you are a fair bit away, it's a miss, this is not hard to judge , if you are a twenty breaker and miss by an inch or two, decent effort, if you miss by a foot, not good enough. Sure there are inconsistencies and one ref will call a miss that another would let go, tough, get on with it ,as long as he treats both players the same there is no reason to question his decisions.

[jonny66]

I never played the miss rule till I started playing in Germany/Austria, everyone plays it there even in friendly games. I always feel like a bit of guilty when I ask my opponent to take the shot again though, especially if it's a mate. That feeling wears off after my opponent has put me back in a couple of times though and I'm getting much better at escaping snookers for it.

[DeanH]

I never played the miss rule till I started playing in Germany/Austria, everyone plays it there even in friendly games. I always feel like a bit of guilty when I ask my opponent to take the shot again though, especially if it's a mate. That feeling wears off after my opponent has put me back in a couple of times though and I'm getting much better at escaping snookers for it.

As you know jonny, asking the player to play again is not the specific part of the Miss Rule - replacing of the balls is the specific part of the Miss rule. Play Again is one of the options available to the non-offending player after any foul - the other option is of course to play it themselves

[jonny66]

Yeah it's the putting the balls back bit that I don't like. No problem letting my opponent play from where the balls landed, unless he pots something, not too keen on that

[acesinc]

I don't think you can grow the game inviting cheats and folk who harass referees, as all that happens is the gentlemen and fair play brigade will leave and then you are left with folk who argue and cheat and the game just dies. Snooker can build character, if you are told there is a certain level expected of you and if you don't or won't conform to it( respecting your opponent, the ref ,the table and equipment, it's not a lot to ask) you are not welcome, go and do something that's more suited to your character.
If pros can call fouls on themselves and accept referees decisions without argument and it's their livelihood on the line, I don't think it's too much to ask a bunch of amateurs who have absoloutly nothing riding on it except at most a point or a plastic trophy to do the same.
Our league is self policed, its up to us all to maintain standards, don't let them slip, then situations don't occur, or are very rare.
I said before if you are not that good a standard just have a basic three points to judge a miss, 1 ,if you can see the ball it's a miss, 2, if there are a load of reds on the table, it's a miss, 3, if you are a fair bit away, it's a miss, this is not hard to judge , if you are a twenty breaker and miss by an inch or two, decent effort, if you miss by a foot, not good enough. Sure there are inconsistencies and one ref will call a miss that another would let go, tough, get on with it ,as long as he treats both players the same there is no reason to question his decisions.

Again, Easy, you speak not a syllable with which I can disagree. But I am also somewhat of a self-taught student of human nature. You say we should not be inviting "cheats" into the game, but what you are seemingly failing to see is that these people do not consider themselves to be cheats at all, they are simply playing the game as they understand it. Not properly, mind you, just the way that they understand it. As for myself, yes, I absolutely will always call F&M on myself even in such a case that a snooker is so absolutely devious and impossible to escape and even if it was laid by the most blatantly obvious fluke. (Bear in mind, this is only in social play. As the self-appointed "tournament director" (because no one else in the club wants the job), I do not allow F&M in any tournament frame at all unless the object ball was clearly visible in a straight line and this is noted by one or the other player before the stroke is even played.) We never have referees....I have a hard time getting people in my club to PLAY the game let alone act as a referee.

So at the social level, the club rule is "call a foul and miss on yourself". And I do. And when my opponent tries a thin cut of Red in a top pocket, misses completely and leaves White perfectly on Baulk cushion (or some other such obvious foul stroke for which F&M would be the correct call), he generally just walks away muttering, "Foul, four away." This doesn't make him a cheat. Yes, I have tried putting people back in at my own call of F&M and I have listened to the whine of how they didn't miss on purpose, or that was a miscue, or they tried their best. So I certainly don't bother at all anymore. Even something as simple as a push shot....every session, say every four hours, I witness at least one, often two push shots. I am not going to call that on someone. People just don't understand what a push shot is. I have learned that if I even inquire that I think that a shot was a push shot, then I listen to the moan of how I am the cheat. It is just not worth it. Again, these people aren't cheats, they just don't know any better. And I have learned from my study of human nature, YOU are the jerk when you attempt to correct ignorance. So you learn to just keep your mouth shut.

For tournament play, I keep a little card which contains tips and points to remember to calm my mind when I am sitting in my chair awaiting my turn. It has on it various things but one which I often refer back to is an acronym (if that is the right word) which is "BSRE" and it reminds me: 1. Never expect the opponent to spot BALLS. (I very often have to spot my own due simply to opponent sloth/laziness) 2. Never expect the opponent to know the SCORE (I have learned to keep track of my own break score....apparently, simple addition is pretty difficult. Also, can't tell you how many times I have left an opponent needing 2 or 3 snookers, then 2 or 3 shots later, he looks at the scoreboard and says, "Oh.....I need snookers.") 3. Never expect the opponent to know the RULES (To this day, I will still need to stop opponents who line up on the next Red after playing a Free Ball. This is after literally decades of snooker experience, ignorance persists.) and 4. Never expect the opponent to display any form of ETIQUETTE at all (Regularly, an opponent will not only stand in, but will actively MOVE INTO my line of sight when I am lining up on a shot. When I have said in the past that this is improper, I've been told "Of course, I won't move. Just shoot." We won't even talk about the opponent "jumping" to retrieve a colour out of a pocket when I begin my back stroke and haven't even struck White yet.)

BSRE helps me to just block the ridiculous, stupid stuff out of my mind. Yes, this is a very negative and pessimistic view. But it is supported by overwhelming evidence. But still, these are not bad people, they are not "cheats". They just don't know any better. Same with the Foul and a Miss rule. Many will just walk away from the table justifying in their own mind that the tried their best.

The written rules need to be absolute and objective, not subjective and relying on a third party decision.

[Big Splash!]

I never played the miss rule till I started playing in Germany/Austria, everyone plays it there even in friendly games. I always feel like a bit of guilty when I ask my opponent to take the shot again though, especially if it's a mate. That feeling wears off after my opponent has put me back in a couple of times though and I'm getting much better at escaping snookers for it.

The nation that gave us Schumacher and Klinsmann insists on playing the miss rule. Irony of ironies.

[Cue crafty]

The nation that gave us Schumacher and Klinsmann insists on playing the miss rule. Irony of ironies.

Just having a large glass of red wine after my league match tonight. Won the first frame 70 odd to nil , second frame fair bit of tippy tappy, then I'm in snookers, F&m, again please! Then it's there, my chance to bury my opponent, only brown, blue , pink and black left on I need them all, he's left the brown over the middle the other colours are on, it's mine for the taking... I then do the worst wooden arm stab of shot I've done in some time! Oh the pain of feeling a complete mug and not punishing your opponent. I don't feel good and I may need brain surgery to help forget it. Ah boo hoo hoo! 😜