2019 World championship qualifiers and draw

[Stony152]

I'm not sure how many thousands of frames of snooker I've watched in my life, but that has to rank as one of the few worst I've ever seen. I assume it's nerves and table conditions, because both players looked like they hadn't made a 50 break in their lives.

[Odrl]

I remember a couple of years ago we had a discussion about Reanne Evans and where she ranked among male snooker players. I was of the opinion that she was definitely in the top 100 and maybe close to the top 50. In retrospect, I have to say that those of you who ranked her much lower than that were definitely right.

Well, in her one season on the main tour she lost every single match, including the amateur rounds of the PTC events, so there was never any case for her being in the top 100 in the world, let alone top 50. That said, I think she is a better player now than she was back then, judging by her fairly respectable results in the WC qualifiers in recent years.

[JimMalone]

I'm not sure how many thousands of frames of snooker I've watched in my life, but that has to rank as one of the few worst I've ever seen. I assume it's nerves and table conditions, because both players looked like they hadn't made a 50 break in their lives.

I watched a couple of frames between Nigel Bond and Ng On Yee in the qualifiers for the 2017 World Championship and they were really, really bad (for professional standard). There were other matches I watched that were pretty bad, but that one somehow stuck with me.

[Stony152]

Well, in her one season on the main tour she lost every single match, including the amateur rounds of the PTC events, so there was never any case for her being in the top 100 in the world, let alone top 50. That said, I think she is a better player now than she was back then, judging by her fairly respectable results in the WC qualifiers in recent years.

I think the discussions we had were after her decent results in WC qualifying. She is really struggling today. Part of it might be the table. Balls seem to be travelling further than the players expect. Or they're both just playing really badly.

[gavpowell]

Well, in her one season on the main tour she lost every single match, including the amateur rounds of the PTC events, so there was never any case for her being in the top 100 in the world, let alone top 50. That said, I think she is a better player now than she was back then, judging by her fairly respectable results in the WC qualifiers in recent years.

Isn't that how a lot of the greats have developed? By getting absolutely battered by a better player and gradually improving their level? Hopefully the same will happen with the women's game, but when reanne was losing to Doherty and White, both of whom are well past it...

[JimMalone]

Doesn't look Reanne will go further this time. Already 0-4 down to Zhang Yong.
Ng On Yee however is level with Alan McManus at 2-2.

[Stony152]

Watching Reanne for three hours, I get the impression that what separates her the most from top male players is long potting. She doesn't even attempt long pots that 95% of male professionals would. The one 75 break that she made because her opponent left her in with a rather straight forward table. What she can't seem to do is create a scoring situation without a bad error from her opponent. In among the balls she seems pretty decent and her safety play seems ok.

Maybe the strength advantage that men have is a factor in long pots, but I think it's more lining up the shot and proper cue action. She's definitely far below even an average professional when it comes to cue power and there are shots that a Sean Murphy or Judd Trump can make that she wouldn't even contemplate trying. That's a big disadvantage.

[Stony152]

Looks like I'm discussing the wrong woman. Ng is leading McManus 4-2. I don't think she's won more than one frame in any of her previous WC qualification attempts. That would be a much bigger upset than Evans beating Robin Hull. If she can go into the evening session with the lead the pressure will start to build on McManus.

[blahblah01]

I'm not sure how many thousands of frames of snooker I've watched in my life, but that has to rank as one of the few worst I've ever seen. I assume it's nerves and table conditions, because both players looked like they hadn't made a 50 break in their lives.

Was that the one where I could have been playing?

[neuronic]

Watching Reanne for three hours, I get the impression that what separates her the most from top male players is long potting. She doesn't even attempt long pots that 95% of male professionals would. The one 75 break that she made because her opponent left her in with a rather straight forward table. What she can't seem to do is create a scoring situation without a bad error from her opponent. In among the balls she seems pretty decent and her safety play seems ok.
.

It's aggressiveness. It's in our genes.

[bobmikeking]

I could be wrong but I would guess Reanne is used to getting a decent chance to build a break at least once per frame against her typical opponents. If that is the case she has had no real need to develop a long game.

[wake_up_bomb]

Reanne is obviously a very good snooker player, better than 99% of us will ever be, and probably the best female player ever, although Allison Fisher could lay claim to that. But you can't really expect the best woman currently to compete with the best men, it's statistically highly unlikely.

How many women play snooker? I've played in numerous snooker clubs, and I've literally never seen a woman playing. There must only be a handful of regular female players. Now think how many men play in order to produce the top 16 in the world.

It's highly probable that the women with the most natural talent and potential at snooker have never played the game, and never will play the game, not least due to a lack of interest (the same could apply to men, but far, far more men play the game, so the peak of performance is still higher).

The only way you're going to get competitive female players is if lots of women play the game, and the cream of those players rise to the top. By the same token, there are hardly any black snooker players, but there are loads of strong players from the Far East. That's not because Chinese people are genetically predisposed to be good at potting balls into holes, it's because loads of Chinese play the game, and few black people do so.

Whether women would quite get up to the level of the best men if many more were playing is more debatable, but we've seen in other competitive disciplines where lots of women play that the standard has escalated rapidly (see most women's sports - eg. tennis, football, cricket, etc).

The question will always be...would most women choose to be in a dingy snooker hall playing snooker? Even young lads are increasingly opting out of that choice.

[Mark187187]

I've only ever seen one lady playing in my club, and that was the barmaid. She was very good though.

Almost as few young people, infact the average age has gone up by 10 years in the last decade, because it's mostly the same people. Unfortunately, this has made attracting younger members difficult, because they're not really welcomed by the other members or the club. It's interesting how tolerance of teenagers and students greatly reduces once you get to middle age. Lots of tutting at any amount of noise, and the staff triple check the tables for damage when kids finish with their table.

We used to have a Rileys in my town. For all its faults (worse of all, making bacon sandwiches in the microwave), they did a cracking job getting kids and women through the door.

[Stony152]

Reanne is obviously a very good snooker player, better than 99% of us will ever be, and probably the best female player ever, although Allison Fisher could lay claim to that. But you can't really expect the best woman currently to compete with the best men, it's statistically highly unlikely.

How many women play snooker? I've played in numerous snooker clubs, and I've literally never seen a woman playing. There must only be a handful of regular female players. Now think how many men play in order to produce the top 16 in the world.

It's highly probable that the women with the most natural talent and potential at snooker have never played the game, and never will play the game, not least due to a lack of interest (the same could apply to men, but far, far more men play the game, so the peak of performance is still higher).

The only way you're going to get competitive female players is if lots of women play the game, and the cream of those players rise to the top. By the same token, there are hardly any black snooker players, but there are loads of strong players from the Far East. That's not because Chinese people are genetically predisposed to be good at potting balls into holes, it's because loads of Chinese play the game, and few black people do so.

Whether women would quite get up to the level of the best men if many more were playing is more debatable, but we've seen in other competitive disciplines where lots of women play that the standard has escalated rapidly (see most women's sports - eg. tennis, football, cricket, etc).

The question will always be...would most women choose to be in a dingy snooker hall playing snooker? Even young lads are increasingly opting out of that choice.

This is an excellent post. I'm a stats nerd myself, but I've never really considered to what degree pure probability plays a role in the difference in ability level between the top men and women.

I'm Canadian and growing up many boys my age dreamt of being hockey players and playing in the NHL. It's similar to football in the UK and in many other parts of the world. So it's not surprising that 50% of NHL players were born in Canada. All of the best athletes try hockey and the cream of those players rises to the top. In other countries hockey may only be the 3rd, 4th, or 5th most popular sport, so the best athletes gravitate to the other sports.

[Russ]

Ng On Yee however is level with Alan McManus at 2-2.

Now 6-6, latest score.