Mark Allen is at it again

[SouthPaw]

Dear Arbit... "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt."

[arbitrage]

I'm not going to argue with idiots, as it's impossible to win! But if you keep calling people racist on here for comments unrelated that you don't like, your just going look childish with no respect!

the sad part about this is that you're so thick, you don't even realize that you are a racist and at the same time you point fingers at others w/o any basis, evidence or supporting facts. fortunately for you, scientists are conducting empirical research on this matter - which might or might not ultimately lead to establishment of a root cause and a solution

http://www.livescience.com/18132-int...sm-racism.html

[nrage]

Just to add i'm being accused of being a racist because I think Asian players are not quick to call fouls on themselves than other nations! I'm sorry but I find that laughable!

Imagine now that you're walking into a snooker club for your club match and your opponent is Asian, are you going to assume he will be slow to call fouls because he is Asian? If so, you are racist - simple as that. If not, if you wait, see him fail to call a foul and then judge him as slow to call fouls then his race hasn't even come into it, and you're not racist - simple as that.

Your statement above that "[you] think Asian players are not quick to call fouls on themselves" is a generalisation based on race, you're implying all Asian players are not quick to call fouls. This is by definition racist.

A players race has no connection to the speed at which they call fouls on themselves. It's true a player is a product of their environment, but everyone is different and it's entirely possible/likely for a player from an environment where "cheating" is rife to have principals and go against the trend.

It may be, in fact, that there is a higher percentage of (picking a race at random to prove the point) Belgian players who are slower to call fouls, you can't know that, all you've done is seen what you believe to be a pattern (Asian player, slow to call a foul) based on an incredibly small number of players (vs total number of Asian snooker players) and from that made a generalisation which could very well be entirely wrong.

[throtts]

Normally, the ones that bring out the racist cards are the ones that are the real racist. They seem so paranoid about there own identity and go straight on the defence, strange but true..

[eaoin11]

In my experience the people who make such a big deal of this tend to be arrogant tw@ts who think being gaurdians of the game's traditions and ettiquet makes them somehow culturally superior. I haven't liked Allen since his rude comments to Bingham when Stuart narrowly missed out on entering the top 16 for the first time.

[SouthPaw]

Just to add i'm being accused of being a racist because I think Asian players are not quick to call fouls on themselves than other nations! I'm sorry but I find that laughable!

[tommygunner1309]

One mans racist is another mans patriot. I guess I am a racist. I want out of Europe and I vote UKIP. I want all criminals not born in this country deported to where they came from after committing crimes, and I want our government to stop giving aid to corrupt, illegitimate dictatorial states around the globe. ------ Hang on though ----- is that racism? or is it a case of just wanting to live in a decent civil society. And I support Mark Davis in snooker matches!!!! Today he is playing Matthew Stevens from Wales - is that racist -- come on lads, lets have a discussion without the abuse and be all snooker pals together -- The person has not yet been born who is not racist in one way or another - you can pin that down all the way to slogans like "buy British" or pulling on a football shirt!!!

[SouthPaw]

I'm not going to argue with idiots, as it's impossible to win! But if you keep calling people racist on here for comments unrelated that you don't like, your just going look childish with no respect!

[DandyA]

I haven't had the time to ready the whole of this thread (sorry) but I am interested in what Mark Allen actually said rather than what the media reported or even what we thought he'd said ...

here's a quote from Allen on 28 Nov from the BBC website ...

"I have been criticised for it [speaking out] in the past, but I have always had an opinion. If more people did have an opinion, it would be better for the game in the long run," he said.
"I don't regret the comments I have made, but the way I have made them. It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out."

so he doesn't regret his previous comments which I think said "there's a tendency of Chinese to cheat" but he also says "it was unfair to label all Chinese as cheats" and "dishonesty in snooker needs to be stamped out" ...

so, as I understand him now, what he is saying is that most Chinese are cheats although he admits one or two Chinese may not be ... dear oh Mr Allen, I repeat my earlier comment - please engage brain before using mouth .

I might have accepted his original comments as "heat of the moment" but I struggle to understand why he (almost) repeated them ...

original article source ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/snooker/20529712

[arbitrage]

That is not taking the sentence out of context, the full quote has been placed in this thread. What I said was "saying "I don't regret the comments I have made" negates his very poor excuses for apologies", meaning having said he does not regret the comments made negates saying what was unfair about them in way of an apology.

The peppered with hate part is where he adds some nastiness to his so called apologies.

"[I regret] the way I have made them" ------------- "I don't regret the comments I have made"

"It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats"-------------- "but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out"

From these negations of apology, the **** taking of the system, his insulting of the actions and the below

"Once that [suspended ban] finishes, I will have a few more things to say,"

...he shows his colours quite clearly!



No digging was required.

I did not accuse you of saying there were a ton of cheating Asian players but people have said there have been a lot. Also your poor analogy used loads of red lights... where are the load of cheating Chinese?

Funny you should choose to contend a point out of context...

Implying that most (if not all) Chinese players are cheaters is not only blatantly racist, hurtful to the Chinese players but it is also bad for the game. Combined with other comment and it is just ridiculous. You don't seem to care, but thankfully people can see that this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

well said. excellent post. these 2 posters brian strickimicki and southpaw are clearly racists (and daft ones at that) but are trying to obfuscate the issue by putting up lame counter arguments that do not even address my original point - which is how in their original postings they singled out chinese players w/o one shred of evidence - then they proceed to shout how wronged they feel by the fact that i pointed out they are racists. it's funny how racists have the courage to single out people of other races for fingerpointing w/o one shred of evidence but when confronted with this fact, get all defensive and shout "racist? who? me?". cry me a river - if you have the guts to make remarks singling out chinese people, have the guts to own up to it. cowards.

this is what mark allen posted on his twitter, comments directly aimed at china, the chinese people and chinese culture:

He tweeted: "This place is horrendous! Dead cat found this morning. Any wonder this place stinks! Must be dead cats all round the town!!"

The Daily Mirror reports he then wrote: "Journey a nightmare. People are ignorant. Place stinks. Arena's rubbish, tables poor, food is horrendous. Other than that I love China."

That tweet was later removed, and replaced with one saying: "Might've been a bit harsh a few hours ago in my tweet. Not all Chinese people are ignorant. I stand by everything else though."

WPBSA chairman Jason Ferguson described the comments as "extremely disappointing" and said his organisation would take a look at them.

He told the Daily Mirror: "Mark Allen's comments are extremely disappointing considering that China is a great friend of our sport.

"There has been a massive effort from China to support our players and I am sure this is an isolated view from one player.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/g...t-7468575.html

so yes, based on this, i stand by my view that mark allen is a racist who made racially based slurs against china, the chinese people and chinese culture.

[qaasim]

The whole comment was: "I don't regret the comments I have made, but the way I have made them. It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out." Let's not take the sentence out of the context...

What were the comments "peppered with more hate", btw?

That is not taking the sentence out of context, the full quote has been placed in this thread. What I said was "saying "I don't regret the comments I have made" negates his very poor excuses for apologies", meaning having said he does not regret the comments made negates saying what was unfair about them in way of an apology.

The peppered with hate part is where he adds some nastiness to his so called apologies.

"[I regret] the way I have made them" ------------- "I don't regret the comments I have made"

"It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats"-------------- "but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out"

From these negations of apology, the **** taking of the system, his insulting of the actions and the below

"Once that [suspended ban] finishes, I will have a few more things to say,"

...he shows his colours quite clearly!

I never at any point said there were tons or even lots of cheating chinese, I wonder where you dug that up?

I am also not arguing any point, but merely stating that the man in my opinion is not racist but simply chose the wrong things to say in the heat of the moment! Some people with openly racial (or of course in your case non-racial) issues are making a mountain out of a mole hill in my opinion. The reasons for this are unknown to me and I really don't care to hear them. I treat all people the same whether white/black/yellow/red or for that matter any other colour you care to mention.

I said that the people forcing this issue seem to be racist in my opinion for using this to hit back at the white race or anybody else not seeing it your way.

Please remember I have not insulted anybody here, nor do I intend to (The same can not be said for the apparent defenders of racial equallity), so to you my good man it's good night from me.


Brian.

No digging was required.

I did not accuse you of saying there were a ton of cheating Asian players but people have said there have been a lot. Also your poor analogy used loads of red lights... where are the load of cheating Chinese?

Funny you should choose to contend a point out of context...

Implying that most (if not all) Chinese players are cheaters is not only blatantly racist, hurtful to the Chinese players but it is also bad for the game. Combined with other comment and it is just ridiculous. You don't seem to care, but thankfully people can see that this kind of behavior is not acceptable.

[Strickimicki]

Also where is all this evidence of tons of cheating Chinese players?

I never at any point said there were tons or even lots of cheating chinese, I wonder where you dug that up?

I am also not arguing any point, but merely stating that the man in my opinion is not racist but simply chose the wrong things to say in the heat of the moment! Some people with openly racial (or of course in your case non-racial) issues are making a mountain out of a mole hill in my opinion. The reasons for this are unknown to me and I really don't care to hear them. I treat all people the same whether white/black/yellow/red or for that matter any other colour you care to mention.

I said that the people forcing this issue seem to be racist in my opinion for using this to hit back at the white race or anybody else not seeing it your way.

Please remember I have not insulted anybody here, nor do I intend to (The same can not be said for the apparent defenders of racial equallity), so to you my good man it's good night from me.


Brian.

[culraven]

I think we need to careful using the term racist, not only is it slanderous in itself, these threads have a tendency to quickly go off track and cause offence, he's been beat, had a blurt, we've all done it! Love him or hate him the sport needs charachters, even idiots

[Looki]

You seem very confused about what a racist is... Well anyway your statement is baseless in the truest sense of the word!

It is a shame you support a racist and are apparently ignorant of the fact that when someone repeatedly exhibits the same appalling behavior it makes full sense to judge them as having that behavior.

The fact is you don't make arguments but just seem to say random confused things that you think make sense... but don't!

As for your Red light argument (which at least relied on some reasoning), it is what is known as a straw man argument. Red lights are not a race of human beings who would take offence at your animosity and negative stereotyping of them. One of the red lights was not Marco Fu who was pulled up for a hearsay attack.

Also where is all this evidence of tons of cheating Chinese players?

Months later saying "I don't regret the comments I have made" negates his very poor excuses for apologies that have been peppered with more hate... If not for these continuing shameful ways he would have more of an in the moment defense.

Your argument is not even an oversimplification, it is a complete misconstruance.

The whole comment was: "I don't regret the comments I have made, but the way I have made them. It was unfair of me to label all Chinese players as cheats but dishonesty in snooker is something that needs to be stamped out." Let's not take the sentence out of the context...

What were the comments "peppered with more hate", btw?

[qaasim]

You two are outing yourselves as racists. You should be ashamed of yourselves, ranting on about what somebody else said or did then doing the same. Go have a good look in the mirror and see if you like the hideous face of racism.

Not a good start to your day,

Brian.

You seem very confused about what a racist is... Well anyway your statement is baseless in the truest sense of the word!

It is a shame you support a racist and are apparently ignorant of the fact that when someone repeatedly exhibits the same appalling behavior it makes full sense to judge them as having that behavior.

The fact is you don't make arguments but just seem to say random confused things that you think make sense... but don't!

As for your Red light argument (which at least relied on some reasoning), it is what is known as a straw man argument. Red lights are not a race of human beings who would take offence at your animosity and negative stereotyping of them. One of the red lights was not Marco Fu who was pulled up for a hearsay attack.

Also where is all this evidence of tons of cheating Chinese players?

Months later saying "I don't regret the comments I have made" negates his very poor excuses for apologies that have been peppered with more hate... If not for these continuing shameful ways he would have more of an in the moment defense.

Your argument is not even an oversimplification, it is a complete misconstruance.