Red and black ball in pocket

[Daddy Steve]

I have a question about snooker thats been nagging me since watching the Williams/Robertson match at the Masters.

They had the black ball right on the edge of the corner pocket, with the only red right next to it. My question is, if Williams hit the red onto the black knocking it into the pocket, then the red followed it into the pocket, would the red be put back onto the table?

In the case in question, Robertson would have been given 7 points, which would put him needing 1 snooker, however that was with the red on the table, so if the red had gone into the pocket he would have needed three snookers, and Williams would have probably been in the final!

[DeanH]

I have a question about snooker thats been nagging me since watching the Williams/Robertson match at the Masters.

They had the black ball right on the edge of the corner pocket, with the only red right next to it. My question is, if Williams hit the red onto the black knocking it into the pocket, then the red followed it into the pocket, would the red be put back onto the table?

A pocketed Red is not put back on the table as in "being Spotted" like a colour - for one thing Reds don't have any spot to be spotted onto
The only time a Red is "put back onto the table from a pocket" is if a Miss is called and the non-offending player asks for the balls to be replaced.

In the case in question, Robertson would have been given 7 points, which would put him needing 1 snooker, however that was with the red on the table, so if the red had gone into the pocket he would have needed three snookers, and Williams would have probably been in the final!

That is all true.
"probably" more likely "possibly"

What a match

[Nifty50]

I think if Williams had pocketed the black and the red he would have received a lot of criticism from his fellow professionals. (Maybe?). I don’t think the ref could have done much about it. Perhaps ungentlemanly conduct? Can’t say I’ve ever seen a situation where black and red were pocketed. There was a similar situation in a match involving Mark King where the black and red were over the pocket but the outcome was that only the black got pocketed.

[Cue crafty]

I've heard a lot of people talking about this but it's not a shot you would want to play in the given situation. Its a real trick shot to pull off even if it was set up perfectly 9 times out of ten the red will stay where it is same principal as a Newton's cradle, all the energy of the hit is absorbed into the black. So it would take some extreme spin shot to pull this off and its low tariff in the situation that arose here.
Carnagepooltricks might have some fun trying this one, be interesting to hear his thoughts.

[DeanH]

I think if Williams had pocketed the black and the red he would have received a lot of criticism from his fellow professionals. (Maybe?). I don’t think the ref could have done much about it. Perhaps ungentlemanly conduct? Can’t say I’ve ever seen a situation where black and red were pocketed. There was a similar situation in a match involving Mark King where the black and red were over the pocket but the outcome was that only the black got pocketed.

I believe it would be down to the manner and the perceived intent of the shot by the referee, as to weather it was a deliberate or not

[Cue crafty]

I believe it would be down to the manner and the perceived intent of the shot by the referee, as to weather it was a deliberate or not

Yes, I think that's a more important point tbh, would be difficult to see it than any thing other than deliberate in that situation. I could imagine Alex Higgins trying to persuade the ref he didn't think the plant was on though!!

Marks a gent and played the right shot brilliantly even though it wasn't enough.

[DeanH]

I've heard a lot of people talking about this but it's not a shot you would want to play in the given situation. Its a real trick shot to pull off even if it was set up perfectly 9 times out of ten the red will stay where it is same principal as a Newton's cradle, all the energy of the hit is absorbed into the black. So it would take some extreme spin shot to pull this off and its low tariff in the situation that arose here.
Carnagepooltricks might have some fun trying this one, be interesting to hear his thoughts.

I am sure it would work with those light-weight and furniture-polished balls on the starched cloth

[Nifty50]

I believe it would be down to the manner and the perceived intent of the shot by the referee, as to weather it was a deliberate or not

To pot them both would have to be deliberate as it’s hard to do. I’ve tried it! In the Cue Zone down at The Crucible they play a little game. One colour is put over each pocket with a red resting against it. The winner is the person who gets all twelve balls down in the least number of shots. Clearly potting two at once helps but it’s difficult. Give it a go. Bit of fun.
PS. Amazing shot by Mark. Nothing wrong with his eyesight.

[Carnagepooltricks]

I've heard a lot of people talking about this but it's not a shot you would want to play in the given situation. Its a real trick shot to pull off even if it was set up perfectly 9 times out of ten the red will stay where it is same principal as a Newton's cradle, all the energy of the hit is absorbed into the black. So it would take some extreme spin shot to pull this off and its low tariff in the situation that arose here.
Carnagepooltricks might have some fun trying this one, be interesting to hear his thoughts.

Hey Cue Crafty Thanks for thinking of me! Yeah I looked at the shot in question, here is the link if anyone hasn't seen it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIfT7wkXYw

I'm not sure you could get both the red and black in with the way the balls are set (I assume you mean when the scores are at 26-67 and Mark plays a bank at 2:15) I gave it a go on my table but it's so hard to try and accurately place the balls so they are like they are here. I got it a couple times but I can't be sure its set the same. To me it looks like it would probably rattle in the pocket. If you put a load of draw/backspin on a shot it will transfer a tiny bit of that onto the object ball as top spin and the red can follow the black in, however it looks like the angle the red & black is on would need to be adjusted to make that work. Wouldn't that be unsportsman like behaviour though? I'd respect it but would be a bit cheeky.

And DeanH - My equipment is all standard stuff, no fake balls or cloth just a load of practice on standard equipment. I did weigh my balls out of curiosity and found my aramith cue ball was 141 grams and the rest of my set was about 139 on average with the lightest ball being the yellow coming in at 137.5 grams. It's an old set that came with the table. Can't remember what the cloth is as it was fitted over ten years ago, I know it had 4 numbers at the end. It's just a standard old snooker table and skill. I don't see anything wrong with cleaning your balls with mr sheen if you haven't got any Aramith ball cleaner, which is what I use.

Top trick shot artist will use a quick drying silicon spray (I saw someone use shoe polish once lol) as this helps recreate the conditions of new felt and balls at shows and certain tournaments although this is not allowed at the World Championships. (When Espn trick shot magic was still going silicone was always allowed, it just had to be specified in the shot). It does come with it's own set of problems. The first time I ever tried a ball with silicone on I hated it as it would slide too much and I couldn't get to grips with it so I used one without for all my shots in front of a live audience. So bear in mind if someone uses silicone like a well known trick shot artist it isn't like switching on autopilot, if anything it's harder due to the nature of needing it in the first place.
Anyway please don't post things like "I am sure it would work with those light-weight and furniture-polished balls on the starched cloth " as it does not apply to me and as you have over 18'000 posts people may believe you and discredit anything I post in the future. I mean it's kind of a compliment in a way thinking the shots can't be done on standard equipment, maybe one day someone will say I'm using magnets and CGI, that would be the ultimate thumbs up lol.

Anyway to end on a positive note, here is a English pool video I did a couple months back, all standard equipment also, including the tiny English cue ball which also makes the masse a bit easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw736jeGDoc

[DeanH]

I can not recall the actual member's name but they used the above "supplements" to their game to create dodgy shots
I thought I put enough smilies to indicate the comment was tongue-in-check

[Carnagepooltricks]

I can not recall the actual member's name but they used the above "supplements" to their game to create dodgy shots
I thought I put enough smilies to indicate the comment was tongue-in-check

Oh right, I think I may of seen someone on youtube get called out for using a lighter white ball, think that was snooker? Wonder where do they get them from? I'm guessing a toy table or something. I did actually get one of those crazy 8 balls for american pool when I was in Atlanta. I thought it would be a fun prop but it wasn't. There is a shot in Mike Masseys book which uses it.

Yeah I find it really hard to read things how they are intended over the internet or text messages so sorry if my reply was a bit over the top. I think doing trickshots you start getting a bit defensive and I think that's what happened to me. All good dude

[Cue crafty]

Hey Cue Crafty Thanks for thinking of me! Yeah I looked at the shot in question, here is the link if anyone hasn't seen it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACIfT7wkXYw

I'm not sure you could get both the red and black in with the way the balls are set (I assume you mean when the scores are at 26-67 and Mark plays a bank at 2:15) I gave it a go on my table but it's so hard to try and accurately place the balls so they are like they are here. I got it a couple times but I can't be sure its set the same. To me it looks like it would probably rattle in the pocket. If you put a load of draw/backspin on a shot it will transfer a tiny bit of that onto the object ball as top spin and the red can follow the black in, however it looks like the angle the red & black is on would need to be adjusted to make that work. Wouldn't that be unsportsman like behaviour though? I'd respect it but would be a bit cheeky.

And DeanH - My equipment is all standard stuff, no fake balls or cloth just a load of practice on standard equipment. I did weigh my balls out of curiosity and found my aramith cue ball was 141 grams and the rest of my set was about 139 on average with the lightest ball being the yellow coming in at 137.5 grams. It's an old set that came with the table. Can't remember what the cloth is as it was fitted over ten years ago, I know it had 4 numbers at the end. It's just a standard old snooker table and skill. I don't see anything wrong with cleaning your balls with mr sheen if you haven't got any Aramith ball cleaner, which is what I use.

Top trick shot artist will use a quick drying silicon spray (I saw someone use shoe polish once lol) as this helps recreate the conditions of new felt and balls at shows and certain tournaments although this is not allowed at the World Championships. (When Espn trick shot magic was still going silicone was always allowed, it just had to be specified in the shot). It does come with it's own set of problems. The first time I ever tried a ball with silicone on I hated it as it would slide too much and I couldn't get to grips with it so I used one without for all my shots in front of a live audience. So bear in mind if someone uses silicone like a well known trick shot artist it isn't like switching on autopilot, if anything it's harder due to the nature of needing it in the first place.
Anyway please don't post things like "I am sure it would work with those light-weight and furniture-polished balls on the starched cloth " as it does not apply to me and as you have over 18'000 posts people may believe you and discredit anything I post in the future. I mean it's kind of a compliment in a way thinking the shots can't be done on standard equipment, maybe one day someone will say I'm using magnets and CGI, that would be the ultimate thumbs up lol.

Anyway to end on a positive note, here is a English pool video I did a couple months back, all standard equipment also, including the tiny English cue ball which also makes the masse a bit easier.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sw736jeGDoc

Yep that's the one, thanks dude, the backspin transfering to top spin was the only scenario that came up that could make it possible but thanks for confirming what a difficult shot that is.

Nice work on the pool tricks btw.