Handicap Calculation

[147Alexandra]

Has anyone developed a handicaping formula for running a 6 red league?

[DawRef]

I haven't, but would suggest that, if you have no prior knowledge of each player's abilities, then the first season is run as a scratch league.
Then next season, you can then apply handicaps to the individual players, based on their performance.
If you have some knowledge (i.e. they are already handicapped in the league they play in), you could use that as a guide.

[AndyG]

Following on from DawRef's suggestion, supposing you do have an existing set of handicaps for the players, you probably should adopt a fairly standard "half of the difference" between their full league handicaps since the 6 red format is basically half of a full frame.

I haven't played 6 red format myself since I was a kid, but I would presume that it actually favours the better player as the table is far more likely to be wide open without the extra red "traffic".

Oh, and ideally you'd like your better players to win more often than they lose or else the handicaps are likely to alienate them - over time, try to adjust the handicaps so that your best players win between 65 and 70% of their matches. That should be enough to keep them happy, while still giving the lesser players some encouragement...

[pigeonslayer]

Oh, and ideally you'd like your better players to win more often than they lose or else the handicaps are likely to alienate them - over time, try to adjust the handicaps so that your best players win between 65 and 70% of their matches. That should be enough to keep them happy, while still giving the lesser players some encouragement...

Are you saying this just for 6 reds, or for snooker in general?
I thought the idea of handicapping was to attempt to make it a level playing field and remove any advantage - rather than acknowledge a better player but still give him the upper hand.

Very difficult to keep everyone happy with handicaps.

[AndyG]

Are you saying this just for 6 reds, or for snooker in general?
I thought the idea of handicapping was to attempt to make it a level playing field and remove any advantage - rather than acknowledge a better player but still give him the upper hand.

Very difficult to keep everyone happy with handicaps.

I was meaning for any league format (6 reds or 15). And you're absolutely right - handicapping is an absolute minefield.

I think your 50-50 outcome ideal is what people might expect in a handicapped knockout competition where entrance money is handed over, but if you have the same balanced outcomes in a league, then effectively you limit the motivation of the players to improve - the matches are just lotteries. I think it makes more sense in a league environment for players to understand that as they improve, even though their handicap will get cut, they will be earning the right to win a greater percentage of their games.

Would you accept my suggestion on that basis?

[ste bed]

i dont think there is any formula for handicaping our league has been running over 30 years and we still get bandits turning up. it takes a while to get everyone around where they should be our handicap runs from -35 to +35. we start all new players off 18/21 to stop cheating unless they are known or have played in the league before. then its reviewed every month at the league meeting and we will move them up or down accordingly. then at the end of each season every player is rehandicapped off last years wins and loses so if you where of +10 played 30 won 20 lost 10 thats a difference of 10 we half that and take it off your current handicap so if you where off 10 you would now be off 5 and its just the other way round if you lose more than you win they just get added on instead. it takes a few seasons to get every player off the right start be it works well and seems to be fair.

[Souwester]

The biggest problem in most leagues is that, apart from a minority, the players are inconsistent: they either play well above their handicap or well below, so that makes it very difficult to set handicaps.

As others have said, if you have a consistent system it will take a few seasons for everyone to more or less find their right level... but you'll still get regular raging arguments that so an so is off too high a handicap!

[AndyG]

The biggest problem in most leagues is that, apart from a minority, the players are inconsistent: they either play well above their handicap or well below, so that makes it very difficult to set handicaps.

As others have said, if you have a consistent system it will take a few seasons for everyone to more or less find their right level... but you'll still get regular raging arguments that so an so is off too high a handicap!

Agreed. But it all just adds to the fun, doesn't it?!

[ste bed]

thats the only problem because its 1 frame snooker i could give 35 start and the guy gets down and knocks 20/30 in and then its virtualy game over. but then play the guy again and he might pot only a few balls there is massive inconsistency in our league. handicaps seem to help the less better player out more say +15 to +30s than the minus men i cant remember the last time a scratch/ minus man last won the most wins, individuals or doubles sometimes the starts are just to much i am in this years individual final i play on monday if i win i will be off -10 next year its the 1st time a -man as got to the final in a long time.

[AndyG]

thats the only problem because its 1 frame snooker i could give 35 start and the guy gets down and knocks 20/30 in and then its virtualy game over. but then play the guy again and he might pot only a few balls there is massive inconsistency in our league. handicaps seem to help the less better player out more say +15 to +30s than the minus men i cant remember the last time a scratch/ minus man last won the most wins, individuals or doubles sometimes the starts are just to much i am in this years individual final i play on monday if i win i will be off -10 next year its the 1st time a -man as got to the final in a long time.

Yep, it would seem churlish to complain when you know only too well that it was actually his best break ever!

Anyway, congrats on reaching your final and the very best of luck in it.

But it doesn't really seem right (to me) that your better players rarely get to the finals. Perhaps you should suggest a similar slanting of the handicaps at one of your league meetings?

[Souwester]

In our league we introduced handicaps probably about 12-14 years ago, and we've tinkered with them almost every year, largely because of one team's forthright views and coercion of other teams to vote for their proposed changes. That team just happens to be the team that won the non-scratch league 13 times in succession in the 70s and 80s, and the reason why the league felt it necessary to bring in handicaps in the first place.

Despite the regular changes to handicap systems, that same team has repeatedly been in the top few teams each season, and at least three of their players have been in the top 6 or so of the averages most years. They just don't believe they should have to fight so hard to win each of their matches.

[AndyG]

A big problem with snooker handicaps as opposed to golf, say, is the fact that the better player should really always be able to control the game, keeping it as tight as necessary and even getting snookers to make up the gap. What that leaves you with is a player who, though inconvenienced greatly, can still win but without really enjoying the process. And that is almost self-defeating. I suspect that the perfect handicapping system doesn't really exist. In the good old days all our leagues had more divisions so that a player could find his own natural level...