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Black Ball Re-Spot Serious Confusion...Help!!!

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  • Black Ball Re-Spot Serious Confusion...Help!!!

    At the end of the game I was playing I needed just the blue & pink to win, I potted the blue & pink which put my opponent 14 points behind at this stage. I then went to pot the black straight after potting the blue & pink but rattled the black in the pocket & then went in off with the white. This then put my opponent just 7 points behind with the foul added on to his points. Then I had a discussion with my opponent that it didn't matter & that I had already won the frame but he thought that the white comes back up into anywhere in the 'D' and that it his his shot with the black hanging over the pocket, he then pots the black over the pocket leaving him equal with my score. So then I toss a coin, I win the toss & decide to put him in first, he plays a bad safety, I miss a fairly hard pot and leave the black on & then he pots the black & says he has won. I'm sure this is not right & that I should've won the frame even with me going in off the black. Can anyone clarity this?
    Last edited by dmorley85; 3rd September 2016, 02:47 AM.

  • #2
    Yes pal, you already won the frame when you potted the pink.

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    • #3
      You were 14 up with black on the table. A foul on the black and you are 7 up. And the frame ends there and then with you winning the frame.

      Comment


      • #4
        Black Ball Re-Spot Serious Confusion...Help!!!

        Yeh you won and after the white went down the black should have been respoted so he shouldn't of been able to win anyway

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Tommykiid View Post
          Yeh you won and after the white went down the black should have been respoted so he shouldn't of been able to win anyway
          Ehh ??? That's not correct

          Comment


          • #6
            You were correct, you could claim the frame when you potted the pink with more than 7 points to your favour and only the Black on the table.

            Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
            At the end of the game I was playing I needed just the blue & pink to win, I potted the blue & pink which put my opponent 14 points behind at this stage.
            sec 2.1...the frame is completed by...(b)claim by the striker when; Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, aggregate points are not relevant, and there is a difference of more than seven points between the scores in his favour;

            After potting the Pink you were 14 points ahead; you could claim the frame.

            Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
            I then went to pot the black straight after potting the blue & pink but rattled the black in the pocket & then went in off with the white. This then put my opponent just 7 points behind with the foul added on to his points.
            You don't have to claim the frame after potting the Pink, you can have a go at the Black, i.e. to get the break score or just for fun.
            As you fouled, your opponent gets the 7 penalty points, but...
            sec3.4 End of Frame...(a) When Black is the only object ball remaining on the table, the first score or foul ends the frame excepting only if the following conditions both apply: (i) the scores are then equal;...
            Your foul on the Black is the "first" pot or foul, and the score not being equal after the penalty points being applied. You won by 7 points.

            Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
            Then I had a discussion with my opponent that it didn't matter & that I had already won the frame...
            You were correct.
            Your score was greater than his after the first pot or foul on the Black.
            As you did not claim the frame after the Pink that reason is not used, it is purely down to your score being greater than his after the first pot or foul on the Black

            Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
            but he thought that the white comes back up into anywhere in the 'D' and that it his shot with the black hanging over the pocket, he then pots the black over the pocket leaving him equal with my score.
            Incorrect, after the first pot or foul on the Black you were 7 points ahead, you won.

            edit ; see
            http://www.thesnookerforum.co.uk/boa...029#post900029

            Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
            So then I toss a coin, I win the toss & decide to put him in first, he plays a bad safety, I miss a fairly hard pot and leave the black on & then he pots the black & says he has won.
            This is what happens with the tie-break and Respot Black.
            But again, the frame should not have gotten this far, you had won after the first pot or foul on the Black

            Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
            I'm sure this is not right & that I should've won the frame even with me going in off the black. Can anyone clarity this?
            To clarify, you had won after the first foul on the Black and being points ahead
            Last edited by DeanH; 3rd September 2016, 09:37 AM.
            Up the TSF!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jrc750 View Post
              Originally posted by Tommykiid View Post
              Yeh you won and after the white went down the black should have been respoted so he shouldn't of been able to win anyway
              Ehh ??? That's not correct
              You sure jrc ?? That's the way me and a mate do it to avoid fluck winning frames say we're level after the white goes down and foul is called

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tommykiid View Post
                You sure jrc ?? That's the way me and a mate do it to avoid fluck winning frames say we're level after the white goes down and foul is called
                In the scenario of the OP, the frame was over before they got to the equal score time.
                Last edited by DeanH; 3rd September 2016, 07:18 AM.
                Up the TSF!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by DeanH View Post
                  Originally posted by Tommykiid View Post
                  You sure jrc ?? That's the way me and a mate do it to avoid fluck winning frames say we're level after the white goes down and foul is called
                  In the scenario of the OP, the frame was over before they got to the equal score time.
                  Ah right now I see what ya mean

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    OP, next time you play with this guy; don't play the black!

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                    • #11
                      I'm uncomfortable with the rules on the final black. If a player who is 14 ahead and CHOOSES to play the black, and fouls, then it should be tough shiit, 7 away, game still live.

                      Why should first foul on the black be end of game anyway? Seems archaic to me.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Dean you said if the scores are seven points or fewer, the cue ball comes back out and your oponent gets to pot the black, is that right? I thought you just lost in that case ,say four up foul on the black ,end of frame isn't it?
                        Last edited by itsnoteasy; 3rd September 2016, 09:25 AM.
                        This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
                        https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by itsnoteasy View Post
                          Dean you said if the scores are seven points or fewer, the cue ball comes back out and your oponent gets to pot the black, is that right? I thought you just lost in that case ,say four up foul on the black ,end of frame isn't it?
                          You are right, I confused myself there :blush:
                          yep had a line of thought and lost it edited.

                          Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
                          but he thought that the white comes back up into anywhere in the 'D' and that it his shot with the black hanging over the pocket, he then pots the black over the pocket leaving him equal with my score.
                          Incorrect, after the first pot or foul on the Black you were 7 points ahead, you won.

                          Now, IF you had not potted or fouled the Black and the scores were 7 or less point difference, the opponent still has a turn to level the score to force the tie-break.
                          Last edited by DeanH; 3rd September 2016, 09:39 AM.
                          Up the TSF!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Hello, Mr Big Shot View Post
                            I'm uncomfortable with the rules on the final black. If a player who is 14 ahead and CHOOSES to play the black, and fouls, then it should be tough shiit, 7 away, game still live.

                            Why should first foul on the black be end of game anyway? Seems archaic to me.
                            It is the end of the frame else you could have a scenario of an endless frame! Some people seem to think snooker is boring enough already
                            There has to be a point at which a frame ends, first scoring pot or foul seems logical to me, and the man with the most points on the board wins the frame

                            Also, if I have 140 break play the Black and foul, does that I lose the frame?
                            Reminds me of Bar Billiards, know down the Red mushroom and lose your whole score.
                            IIRC there are other cuepsorts that do the "foul black and lose frame", but they tend to be group-of-balls type games, unlike Snooker which is points-based, the player with the higher score wins.
                            Of course it has happened where a player plays the Black to win the frame and to stay in the match (Mark Allen) only to go in off and lose the Frame and match (Mark Allen).
                            Last edited by DeanH; 3rd September 2016, 09:59 AM.
                            Up the TSF!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Love a good re-spot!
                              Cheap and Cheerful! 😄

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