If you met a top ranked player in the street

[trains]

I always wanted to get into show jumping, skiing or rowing, but no luck there either :apologetic:

but are any show jumpers skiers or rowers taxi drivers to supplement their income , maybe you might know because you obviously have an interest .

[snooker_bhoy]

I think there are a couple of show jumpers who hire out carriages for weddings if that counts

[trains]

I think there are a couple of show jumpers who hire out carriages for weddings if that counts

Not really , as diminished an entity marriage might be nowadays its still somewhat higher on the social scale than getting a taxi to bring home shopping from your local iceland’s .

[vmax]

but any kid playing on your table's is supposed to hoof his way to centuries then find a mystical pro table to familiarise himself with so he can compete with pro's , there's some narrative in the sky somewhere that works , they think it works on snooker forums anyway .:snooker:

You're right up to a point, the point being where in the country you reside. In the local liberal club where I play we used to have four tables, all different, now three. Of these four tables only one has corner pockets that came close to the ones used in the pro game, the rest have the billiard cut pocket opening where the jaws taper in after the fall of the slate rather than stay parallel all the way to the leather which is the norm with pro tables. The one with the bigger corner pockets was fitted poorly imo because the corners are more generous at the expense of the middles which are terribly tight, so the cushions could have been fitted poorly, but around the top of the table, as long as you stayed on the black, break building was easier and a couple of tons have been made on it.

The other tables are very old, one close to 100, and they have the billiard cut pocket opening and any ball close to the cushion is a 3 out of 10 shot and cannot be struck at anything above medium pace, so we learn to use side rather than stun run through power as any touch on the jaws with any kind of pace is a miss, and all balls close to the cushion will touch the jaws.
My top break on the tightest table of all is 86, I once made a total clearance on the one now dismantled, a 59 on the oldest one, which is too low for me, and steer clear of the more generous one as I don't like the room where it is as there's a pool table in there as well, which is why one was dismantled, and the noise of the pool players is very off putting.

There you have it, four tables, now three, all different, none coming anywhere close to modern yet alone pro standard, but back in the day when I first joined the local league in 1981 the standard was pretty high with at least one 50+ being made by someone somewhere every week on tables all over town of the same ilk. New snooker clubs opened during the 80's boom and they brought forth some new youngsters who could only play decent snooker on the new BCE tables and aramith balls in those clubs, it was the opposite for the rest of us, yet only a handful have stayed with the game, one turned pro for a short while but didn't get any sponsorship so dropped off the tour and doesn't play at all now.

Those clubs closed in the 90's and all we have left are the old social club tables and one new Star table in a local leisure facility, but that one hasn't been fitted using WPBSA pocket templates and is not at all as easy as the ones you see on tv, plus the room it's in is too small and your cue and your arse is up against the wall too often.
So nothing is the same, every table you play on is different, the rooms the tables are in have different atmospheric conditions, so some are fast while some are slow, some are too low, some have so little room you cannot step into the shot but have to shuffle along the wall to get into position, cloths are changed every two years and the lighting on tables not used in the league, which have daylight bulbs as a league rule, is old style filament bulbs. Taking all this into consideration, any youngster coming into the game here in north devon will soon learn that the shots he sees on tv are not possible and will quickly become disallusioned and move back to UK pool which is probably where he came from, I've seen it happen many, many times.

The standard in our league now is pitiful compared to what it was, the league singles winner doesn't have a 50 break to his name, I don't play league anymore because of the committees failure to deal with the mobile phone problem which is rampant at every league match, does my head in

[trains]

You're right up to a point, the point being where in the country you reside. In the local liberal club where I play we used to have four tables, all different, now three. Of these four tables only one has corner pockets that came close to the ones used in the pro game, the rest have the billiard cut pocket opening where the jaws taper in after the fall of the slate rather than stay parallel all the way to the leather which is the norm with pro tables. The one with the bigger corner pockets was fitted poorly imo because the corners are more generous at the expense of the middles which are terribly tight, so the cushions could have been fitted poorly, but around the top of the table, as long as you stayed on the black, break building was easier and a couple of tons have been made on it.

The other tables are very old, one close to 100, and they have the billiard cut pocket opening and any ball close to the cushion is a 3 out of 10 shot and cannot be struck at anything above medium pace, so we learn to use side rather than stun run through power as any touch on the jaws with any kind of pace is a miss, and all balls close to the cushion will touch the jaws.
My top break on the tightest table of all is 86, I once made a total clearance on the one now dismantled, a 59 on the oldest one, which is too low for me, and steer clear of the more generous one as I don't like the room where it is as there's a pool table in there as well, which is why one was dismantled, and the noise of the pool players is very off putting.

There you have it, four tables, now three, all different, none coming anywhere close to modern yet alone pro standard, but back in the day when I first joined the local league in 1981 the standard was pretty high with at least one 50+ being made by someone somewhere every week on tables all over town of the same ilk. New snooker clubs opened during the 80's boom and they brought forth some new youngsters who could only play decent snooker on the new BCE tables and aramith balls in those clubs, it was the opposite for the rest of us, yet only a handful have stayed with the game, one turned pro for a short while but didn't get any sponsorship so dropped off the tour and doesn't play at all now.

Those clubs closed in the 90's and all we have left are the old social club tables and one new Star table in a local leisure facility, but that one hasn't been fitted using WPBSA pocket templates and is not at all as easy as the ones you see on tv, plus the room it's in is too small and your cue and your arse is up against the wall too often.
So nothing is the same, every table you play on is different, the rooms the tables are in have different atmospheric conditions, so some are fast while some are slow, some are too low, some have so little room you cannot step into the shot but have to shuffle along the wall to get into position, cloths are changed every two years and the lighting on tables not used in the league, which have daylight bulbs as a league rule, is old style filament bulbs. Taking all this into consideration, any youngster coming into the game here in north devon will soon learn that the shots he sees on tv are not possible and will quickly become disallusioned and move back to UK pool which is probably where he came from, I've seen it happen many, many times.

The standard in our league now is pitiful compared to what it was, the league singles winner doesn't have a 50 break to his name, I don't play league anymore because of the committees failure to deal with the mobile phone problem which is rampant at every league match, does my head in

yes i think groups of people and snooker friends should just hire out property between them to use as a practice and playing facility to share among themselves , i was told thats what the liverpool area players rod lawler andrew higginson and robbie williams do , this snooker ' dormancy ' if you like has gone on for too long since the 80's , i know its a bit of a load or undertaking having to pay and plan it all among yourselves but it isn't going to change so there isn't any other way . :snooker:

[Starsky]

Good post vmax,

Its an interesting topic this and most of my perspective will be from one of those kids in the 80’s as I’ve spent the last 30 years hardly playing apart from a short return to the game about 15 yrs ago.

Most of the kids back around mid 80 to early 80’s would like me have started playing either in billiard halls or social clubs with the old billiard tables which as you correctly say we’re tight along the rails compared to the BCE tables that came at a later date which felt like buckets compared to this billiard table I admit !. To say they couldn’t play on them though i would disagree with . Even O’Sullivan started out on these tables and he was good on them at about 10yrs old .

Every new club around that time that opened had tables that played differently within their own club let alone between the clubs . I started off playing in handicap comps, league and county comps all over London and Essex and you had to adapt to different tables and balls all the time.
It was the same when I moved up to Pro Ams.

It’s this constant adapting to different environments where the likes of the ‘class of 92’ cut their mustard. They would have done this up to quite a later point in their career compared to the new modern player who will start practicing on their clubs pro table at an early stage in their career once they reach an appropriate level and is given access to that table ( I can imagine Trains might have something to say about that !).

Personally I think this ability to adapt is an advantage the ‘class of 92’ had over modern players over more recent years and has helped them carry on being successful while competing in more comps around the world in different environments .

In a way I agree with Trains as the pro table is so far removed from a normal club table in the modern game due to its super fast cloths etc. Where I disagree with him is that those tables are available in the modern club if you reach a level that is good enough to get free time regardless of your background .

The problem now is that because there is only a limited number of pro tables available in clubs and a limited number of modern clubs the competition to get on them is higher.

If I was trying become pro now and I couldn’t get free time to get access on these tables I would seriously think about clubbing together with other like minded players and get my own somewhere .

[itsnoteasy]

A pro set up table in a club will play completely differently to a table set up for a tv event, unless you are changing the cloth every three days.

[Danger Steve]

This is the exact reason I built my own cabin to house my own table! I’m not a rich person though, just lucky I have a garden big enough and I worked hard and saved over a number of years with this in mind. There seem to be many people now doing the same thing and they are not part of the social elite! You can pick up tables now at very reasonable prices 2nd hand, also if your prepared to put in some work you can create a table as close to a pro table as you can afford, probably for 1/4 the cost of a 12k Star.

With regards kids playing and seeing these deep screw shots by the likes of Trump and Co. I think some of this will be down to the parents and coaching skills to reassure and educate them on why those shots are difficult and therefore the kids won’t get too disheartened? At the end of the day there’s more to snooker than that.

If you take the Chinese they have these massive academies with Star tables, full of kids wanting to make it as snooker pros, yet there aren’t many actually coming through in the numbers you would have thought? Why is this?? They have the best tables and best conditions?? I don’t know..

Now I have my own table ( albeit half complete at the moment) I have gone from making a 50 break in the the line-up as a 16yr old to making a 78 break (as 39yr old) in the space of 6 weeks of practicing a couple of hours a day! Before this I hadn’t played in 15+yrs? Maybe more.. I think what this shows is that if you have underlying ability/ talent a player can adapt to any table or conditions given some good practice, nothing to do with my table which has a knackered thick cloth and only two cushions and one pocket at the moment... much worse than the new tables I had access to as a 16yr old lad playing twice a week 6 hours a day!

I’m not sure what I’m babbling on about but I think the point I’m making is that at first you need the talent and then the practice will bring out the talent, after that I suppose for the future of kids coming through in the UK from poorer backgrounds it’s a case of the parents trying to give them the opportunities and being in the right place at the right time to be spotted, eventually getting sponsorship and then hopefully they will progress from there.

The best snooker player in the world has NEVER picked up a cue! Fact! The same goes for any sport or profession!

At the moment I think we’re just hitting a bit of a talent drought probably as a result of snooker becoming less popular and appealing to youngsters... We need to un-plug those Xbox’s and get out the 6ft Riley fold away tables and start creating the stars of tomorrow!

[trains]

Good post vmax,

It’s this constant adapting to different environments where the likes of the ‘class of 92’ cut their mustard. They would have done this up to quite a later point in their career compared to the new modern player who will start practicing on their clubs pro table at an early stage in their career once they reach an appropriate level and is given access to that table ( I can imagine Trains might have something to say about that !).

Personally I think this ability to adapt is an advantage the ‘class of 92’ had over modern players over more recent years and has helped them carry on being successful while competing in more comps around the world in different environments .

In a way I agree with Trains as the pro table is so far removed from a normal club table in the modern game due to its super fast cloths etc. Where I disagree with him is that those tables are available in the modern club if you reach a level that is good enough to get free time regardless of your background .

The problem now is that because there is only a limited number of pro tables available in clubs and a limited number of modern clubs the competition to get on them is higher.

If I was trying become pro now and I couldn’t get free time to get access on these tables I would seriously think about clubbing together with other like minded players and get my own somewhere .

just abbreviated for brevity , the young chinese players like zhou yuelong and yuan sijun may only have ever played on pro tables in their lives and may not have a clue what we're on about , also someone like chris wakelin in the nuneaton area , he may have never shown any distinctive prowess on a club table but happened to live in an area with a very good club the atack and apparently bought his own in that club , so in these instances you could say club tables are somewhat irrelevant in the modern pro game .

in the case of the other midlands players i mentioned earlier i think murphy had a full size table at home as a kid , i'm not sure if any had particular distinctive prowess on club tables its just that they had access to good tables nonetheless and i think their fathers were also huge snooker fans , pretty sure thats the case with selby murphy and kyren wilson , they may have known quite a few pro's at the time too , murphy lived in loughborough and went to the former premier league tournament held there with his dad , not forgetting the input of willie and malcolm thorne , i think in general that area is just a better one for aspiring pro snooker players , proof also is in the numbers .

[Danger Steve]

just abbreviated for brevity , the young chinese players like zhou yuelong and yuan sijun may only have ever played on pro tables in their lives and may not have a clue what we're on about , also someone like chris wakelin in the nuneaton area , he may have never shown any distinctive prowess on a club table but happened to live in an area with a very good club the atack and apparently bought his own in that club , so in these instances you could say club tables are somewhat irrelevant in the modern pro game .

in the case of the other midlands players i mentioned earlier i think murphy had a full size table at home as a kid , i'm not sure if any had particular distinctive prowess on club tables its just that they had access to good tables nonetheless and i think their fathers were also huge snooker fans , pretty sure thats the case with selby murphy and kyren wilson , they may have known quite a few pro's at the time too , murphy lived in loughborough and went to the former premier league tournament held there with his dad , not forgetting the input of willie and malcolm thorne , i think in general that area is just a better one for aspiring pro snooker players , proof also is in the numbers .

Wait.. what? I’m from the Midlands, I have a table, so my 9yr old could be the next Murphy/Selby/Wilson?? Well what the heck I’m I doing on here..... It’s time to drag his butt off the Xbox and onto the baize! Look out Ronnie here we come!!

:snooker:

[Starsky]

I agree , Loughborough, Bedford , Luton and the surrounding area always had loads of clubs and pro ams back in the day. I presume quite a few would have now closed though, at least the ones I knew.

Coming from the South East we only ventured up as far as Leicester in those days for one day comps and that felt like the end of the world to a teenager

[trains]

Wait.. what? I’m from the Midlands, I have a table, so my 9yr old could be the next Murphy/Selby/Wilson?? Well what the heck I’m I doing on here..... It’s time to drag his butt off the Xbox and onto the baize! Look out Ronnie here we come!!

:snooker:

yes why not , don't waste time though and put in a quality star or riley tournament champion , we'll remember this thread in about seven years time and we can give all ourselves a collective congrats , good luck :-)

[Danger Steve]

I have an Aristocrat so we’re quids in!

[Starsky]

I have an Aristocrat so we’re quids in!

Just tell your boy he’s got to put down the controller and practice for six hours a day . If he asks why tell him it’s to pay of his daddy’s mortgage , I’m sure he’ll understand

[Starsky]

Trains mentioned Willie Thorne , what’s the latest with his health ?