Making century's on club tables compared to tv tables

[Sir Ivanhoe]

I am a finesse experienced player from years back. This is an extremely good article club league players /tables vs TV tournament tables/pro players. Most club traditional tables don't even have steel block cushions or consistent pace off cushions. The best one can hope for at club level is 6811 top quality cloth on tables well maintained. The tv star tables in main arena's are hot on the bed due to under table heaters and overhead led lights resulting in a hot table conditions environment. Together with double shaved cloth no nap the game favour tremendous potters with cue power. Trump, Selby Robertson Ronnie but to name a few. The game is dying at grass roots level, in good health at pro level. As described the ball sets are arimith as against super cristalate in club snooker environments. Read today's posts for all other factors.

[trains]

A lot of good posts in this thread,thanks all.

[Csmith]

I find match tables tight, but not too tight. They definitely keep you honest, but as long as you take a little time to warm up and adjust you should be ok. But going back to a club table after a few matches on proper match table, it's crazy what you can do with potting.

[jonny66]

I am a finesse experienced player from years back. This is an extremely good article club league players /tables vs TV tournament tables/pro players. Most club traditional tables don't even have steel block cushions or consistent pace off cushions. The best one can hope for at club level is 6811 top quality cloth on tables well maintained. The tv star tables in main arena's are hot on the bed due to under table heaters and overhead led lights resulting in a hot table conditions environment. Together with double shaved cloth no nap the game favour tremendous potters with cue power. Trump, Selby Robertson Ronnie but to name a few. The game is dying at grass roots level, in good health at pro level. As described the ball sets are arimith as against super cristalate in club snooker environments. Read today's posts for all other factors.

Is there no nap on match cloths? The nap confuses me, surely it's cheaper not to have one and it doesn't do anyone any good.

[vmax4steve]

I am a finesse experienced player from years back. This is an extremely good article club league players /tables vs TV tournament tables/pro players. Most club traditional tables don't even have steel block cushions or consistent pace off cushions. The best one can hope for at club level is 6811 top quality cloth on tables well maintained. The tv star tables in main arena's are hot on the bed due to under table heaters and overhead led lights resulting in a hot table conditions environment. Together with double shaved cloth no nap the game favour tremendous potters with cue power. Trump, Selby Robertson Ronnie but to name a few. The game is dying at grass roots level, in good health at pro level. As described the ball sets are arimith as against super cristalate in club snooker environments. Read today's posts for all other factors.

LED and modern flourescent lighting doesn't produce the heat that the old bulbs did, that heat warmed the cloth and balls and was of benefit, very few clubs use super crystalate balls anymore as they were discontinued in the late 80's.

Two years ago our club bought a new set of TC's for our #1 match table, the super crystalates balls were switched to table #2 and table #1 was also reclothed that same week. Now normally this table is much better to play on with a new cloth as the tight pockets accept balls a little more easily with a bit of nap on the pocket jaws but the table turned into something of a nightmare as no one could get the cue ball moving, bad contacts, kicks were rife. The cloth was blamed and the fitter called back to stretch it, it made no difference, new cloth was then fitted and still it made no difference, the table was officially rubbish to all players in the club.

Now I tend to practise solo sunday lunchtimes on table #1 but switched to table #2, a table I dislike as it's too low for me. I was playing poorly and seeing as no one was on table #1 I played with the old supers on table #1 and immediately all the negatives disappeared. Try as I might the club secretary would not put the old supers back on table #1 as "these are the balls the pros use, they're the best"

Two years on and the same cloth is still on table #1 but as the nap has worn the table plays better, less resistance to the inertia of the moving balls making for a cleaner contact with less friction, but when it's cold and damp that resistance to inertia is amplified and the problem with the balls comes back with a vengeance.

[magicman]

Of course conditions are better at pro level. Football stadiums have mixed grasses with under-pitch heating. Pro level Golf courses have greens like billiard tables. Pick any sport and the pro's have practically flawless conditions to ply their trade.

In snooker, pro's are used to similar table set ups everywhere they go. That's not to say they suddenly can't play when faced with a club table, no matter how supposedly tight you might think they are. If forced to play on those tables day after day they'd still batter most players and 95% of posters on here would be picking balls out for them frame after frame.

I've worked up and down the country, living and working in England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and abroad. I'd argue I've played in more snooker halls than most people on the planet. Club tables can be hard work, no doubt. First class match tables do provide an easier environment to move the white and perform deep screws etc. However, match tables are far far harder in general. The cloth is lightning fast requiring a subtle dexterity of touch, and fine cueing, the pockets are much tighter, at least much tighter than 98% of 'club tables'.

Added to this, most of the time you get to the standard to actually play well on these tight, fast tables, your opponents are fantastic players so there's more pressure not to miss, or to get a great length on your safety etc.

[CoachGavin]

Making century's on club tables compared to tv tables

don't agree with game dying at grass root level cos amateurs aren't replicating tv shots. i don't think the kids now are even getting to the table. Need to get them to try the game in the first place and then they will get the bug. On another note from my experience all the good break builders i know learnt their trade from club tables. Ive seen young lads put on tv tables and they are just too hard, they concentrate on potting and they never experience shot selection, cannons and playing little stuns and screws for position. Im sure most current pros started on club tables s and played on tv tables as they improved.

[trains]

I've seen plenty of pro ranking qualifiers in the Sheffield cubicles and ptc's where the level of current pro's play in these matches was somewhere between poor and very forgettable where players not on tour would beat them or possibly bump them off the tour over a season but tour players have access to these facilities as part of their job which of course boosts their knowledge and experience and gives them an advantage over any amateurs at the q school or in ptc's who haven't played on star tables before.
I've also seen players who aren't pro's who I find it hard to believe they haven't made more of a mark in the game even though I only saw them play on good club tables,I don't know them well or what they do off the table so I suppose it comes down to the fact if they make enough money away from the game or they don't get on tour via the q school or ptc's they're not that bothered to give it another go.

[itsnoteasy]

Played on a very nice table tonight, missed an easy black on forty nine , best thing was it was seven reds six blacks, so I was on a 147 lol,(not really some balls had already been potted) it was an absolute doddle to play on, after the matches I played a couple or three long blues and screwed the White easily into baulk, you hardly had to hit it, just play through it and keep relaxed. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it was a high match standard table, I wouldn't know, but when I see how I have to batter the balls around the club tables to make them do anything, I now know my tables aren't helping my game.

[luke-h]

Played on a very nice table tonight, missed an easy black on forty nine , best thing was it was seven reds six blacks, so I was on a 147 lol,(not really some balls had already been potted) it was an absolute doddle to play on, after the matches I played a couple or three long blues and screwed the White easily into baulk, you hardly had to hit it, just play through it and keep relaxed. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it was a high match standard table, I wouldn't know, but when I see how I have to batter the balls around the club tables to make them do anything, I now know my tables aren't helping my game.

Exactly, less movement, more accurate and no worry about balls rolling off leave's you the freedom of playing in the zone.

[Leo]

Played on a very nice table tonight, missed an easy black on forty nine , best thing was it was seven reds six blacks, so I was on a 147 lol,(not really some balls had already been potted) it was an absolute doddle to play on, after the matches I played a couple or three long blues and screwed the White easily into baulk, you hardly had to hit it, just play through it and keep relaxed. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying it was a high match standard table, I wouldn't know, but when I see how I have to batter the balls around the club tables to make them do anything, I now know my tables aren't helping my game.

You got any idea what cloth you were playing on mate?

[itsnoteasy]

You got any idea what cloth you were playing on mate?

I don't Leo but I have played billiards on this table before but this was my first game of snooker. I have always liked the table but because you don't really play the same range of shots in billiards as you do in snooker I hadn't noticed just how nice the cloth was, I will ask a few lads I know who play on it regularly they might know.
I have always been on the side of , if your good you can make big breaks on anything and I still beleive this to be true, but it has to be, if not easier, more pleasurable , to make them on a good table.

[pottr]

Excellent thread, not sure how I missed it...

For me, magicman's post wins the thread outright:

Of course conditions are better at pro level. Football stadiums have mixed grasses with under-pitch heating. Pro level Golf courses have greens like billiard tables. Pick any sport and the pro's have practically flawless conditions to ply their trade.

In snooker, pro's are used to similar table set ups everywhere they go. That's not to say they suddenly can't play when faced with a club table, no matter how supposedly tight you might think they are. If forced to play on those tables day after day they'd still batter most players and 95% of posters on here would be picking balls out for them frame after frame.

I've worked up and down the country, living and working in England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland and abroad. I'd argue I've played in more snooker halls than most people on the planet. Club tables can be hard work, no doubt. First class match tables do provide an easier environment to move the white and perform deep screws etc. However, match tables are far far harder in general. The cloth is lightning fast requiring a subtle dexterity of touch, and fine cueing, the pockets are much tighter, at least much tighter than 98% of 'club tables'.

Added to this, most of the time you get to the standard to actually play well on these tight, fast tables, your opponents are fantastic players so there's more pressure not to miss, or to get a great length on your safety etc.

It's bang on...

[GeordieDS]

Someone once said bad tables make bad players, I don't know about cloths or tight pockets much as I don't have enough experience but I do play on some old tables with tighter pockets when the league is on and it takes a few shots to get kind of zeroed into them but then they feel ok. In our club the cushions are awfull and it's not from cush to cush, it's if you hit diferent parts of the same cush, one place you get a good bounce, hit the same Cush six inches along dead as a dodo ,that is very frustrating.
On the other hand we had a player up here once called Mike Nixon, knocked in 147 s for fun on the same tables, so if your good your good.

I remember Mike Nixon as he played a Pro-Am in Wallsend Supa Snooker about twenty years ago and he played one of my team mates and he was very fluent, i remember Neal Mosley won that day and he was also very good.
It was this tournament that made me realise how bad i was at this game

[itsnoteasy]

That would have been near the end of Mikes snooker days so I'm told Geordie, as he hasn't picked up a cue for well over fifteen years, except for one frame at the club for a charity thing for a very very well liked member who wasn't too well for a bit.
He played one frame against Rob Simm our county champion, Rob broke off and Mike stuck in a 48 ,not bad for the first time you have held a cue in over fifteen years.
Some of the stories told about him are stuff of legend lol, he was definitely more your Alex Higgins type than your clean cut Steve Davis lol.