Making century's on club tables compared to tv tables

[itsnoteasy]

All the hard tables I play on are as Vmax says in the Working men's clubs, just touch the rubber even at pocket weight and its spat out, I can't say how tough tourney tables are as I have never played on one, except when I went to the corn exchange , Chris told me that table is used for some type of scottish champs,and even he called the pockets "a bit nippy" so I'm guessing it will be a decent standard of table, I found it scary when I first went, not too bad the second and definitely easier than the working mens tables, except the middle bags ,quite tight.

[Byrom]

In the 1980's three snooker clubs opened in our town, they closed about ten years later when the boom was over. One of these clubs had a table that was used in one of the Lada Classic tournaments, that was their advertising blurb to get people in the door. We all had a go on it and it was so much easier than our local club table, I turned away on many shots as I thought I'd missed them only to see them drop out of the corner of my eye.

Tight pockets my arse, many of the people on this forum have no idea what a tight pocket is. The old tables in the working mens and political clubs are so much harder.

Made me laugh this - V max means old billiard tables which where much harder than a snooker table to play on - There is one in every town somewhere - you have to roll em in dead centre at the right weight on some tables or it spits it out - tables of death worse if they have a bad cloth and cushions that make the white jump on one side and dead on the other - put a light white on and dull lighting and there are some pro's that could not make a ton on some of these babies for sure.

[pottr]

Making century's on club tables compared to tv tables

What everyone is saying... Is that if tbe conditions are poor, a top player couldn't play to the top standard...

No **** Sherlock...

I doubt Lewis Hamilton could put in a lap of Silverstone in a car with 1 wheel...

The pros are awesome... Pro setups exist for us all to play on if we wish...

This thread irritates me. Got guys who haven't made a ton 'on any table' preaching how easy the pros have it...

I have a free weekend in Feb... I might travel to play on one of these unplayable tables and bring someone like Dave Gilbert, Chris Wakelin or Matt Selt with me...

You'll have your eyes opened within 20 minutes... 100% confident.

[jonny66]

Is it not easier to spin a lighter white?

[itsnoteasy]

What everyone is saying... Is that if tbe conditions are poor, a top player couldn't play to the top standard...

No **** Sherlock...

I doubt Lewis Hamilton could put in a lap of Silverstone in a car with 1 wheel...

The pros are awesome... Pro setups exist for us all to play on if we wish...

This thread irritates me. Got guys who haven't made a ton 'on any table' preaching how easy the pros have it...

I have a free weekend in Feb... I might travel to play on one of these unplayable tables and bring someone like Dave Gilbert, Chris Wakelin or Matt Selt with me...

You'll have your eyes opened within 20 minutes... 100% confident.

You will have to become a member at the working mens first, Interviewed by the committee, then a vote, shouldn't take longer than a couple of months lol.

[Terry Davidson]

Just a thought on this as I agree with pottr. If the pros have it so easy then why is it when a player wins the IBSF World Amateur Champs they ALL do crap when they get on the pro tour? I think it goes to show a lot of the pros are that one level higher than the BEST amateurs.

The Shender tables used by the IBSF are a bit tighter than your normal club table but I didn't find them as difficult as the Star tables at SWSA however, as I've said before, when I was at SWSA they had 4 Star tables in the 'pro-only' room where the pockets were a little more generous. The other tables at SWSA were tighter.

But please give a thought to the club owners...there are not a lot of players around like vmax who sing the praises of really tight tables and most players want to make breaks and it's to the club owners advantage to widen the pockets a bit as it will bring in more customers (hopefully).

Now all that said, here's what I think is going on here with this discussion. If a pro decided to play frequently on one of these very tight workingman's club tables I have no doubt he would get used to it and be able to run centuries. However the pros are used to ideal conditions with pockets which accept balls and will accept the occasional mis-hit shot and they run centuries because they are well used to those conditions. An amateur, even a world champion, has to get used to those conditions and it does take a while to do that.

If a pro went to a workingman's club and practiced for a week or so on that really tight table and got used to the conditions I have no doubt they would start playing well even given the conditions and would likely have a few centuries.

[hotpot]

The worst league table I played was at a Conservative club. Even our 147 player couldn't screw the length of the table. My fleece was less fluffy. But, it was still easier to make breaks in the balls there than SWSA which had the tightest Star template imaginable. It's very easy to lose the white ball on those tables. So fast, so slick. The WS Star template is more like a club table cut but its still really fast so white ball control is difficult on a shaved 6811. The ISBF is the real deal I've heard.

Yes ive played at the swsa

[vmax4steve]

But please give a thought to the club owners...there are not a lot of players around like vmax who sing the praises of really tight tables and most players want to make breaks and it's to the club owners advantage to widen the pockets a bit as it will bring in more customers (hopefully).

I don't sing their praises Terry, just stating that some club tables that are very old and haven't had new cushions fitted are a darn sight harder than what we all see on tv. My clubs match table actually holds me back as there are certain shots that you know you're gonna miss 9/10 but I still go for them anyway. Red near a cushion and it has to be dead centre of the pocket, any touch on the jaws and it stays out so you need a good angle so that you don't have to hit it hard.

I don't doubt for a moment that any pro or top amateur can make tons on it as a few local players have, but if a ball touches the jaws at pace it will stay out for them just as it does for us. On those tv tables the pockets accept balls at pace off both near and far jaws all the time and that makes it easier than we have it and that's all I'm saying.

I think if I practised on a tv table for a week or so, got used to the extra speed of the cloth and lost my fear of balls near the cushion then I could extend my high break to the 90's or even get a ton if the run went my way.
I'm no dummy with a cue in my hand as long as I keep my eye on the object ball, had a couple of 50's today in practise and both breaks ended with a near jaw rattler red near the top cushion that I had to hit harder than I wanted as I didn't get the right angle to roll them.

Yes that was my fault I know, but recovery shots on these tables are a real bitch and it gets into your psyche when faced with yet another shot that you know you have get spot on dead centre of the pocket. Half the time you've missed before you have even attempted it as you're so uptight about it that your shoulder drops, you take your eye off the object ball, you snatch or decelerate, move on the shot etc.

Bigger pockets make you more confident that's a fact and a good players cue action will remain so when playing on a tight table as he doesn't have the fear instilled into him and will probably make a higher percentage due to that alone.
All our local 100 break players know our table so well that if there's a ball on or near the cushion it's left 'til last.

[vmax4steve]

The Shender tables used by the IBSF are a bit tighter than your normal club table but I didn't find them as difficult as the Star tables at SWSA however, as I've said before, when I was at SWSA they had 4 Star tables in the 'pro-only' room where the pockets were a little more generous. The other tables at SWSA were tighter.

There you go, the pros have it easier even when they have a bit of practise, WSC templates as against ISBF templates. It's not the Star tables that are tighter, it's any table that has pockets fitted to ISBF templates or an old billiard table with the original cushions still on it.

[pottr]

Making century's on club tables compared to tv tables

I get what you're saying... but pocket tightness isn't really a factor when making tons...

It's the ability to control the white. The hardest tables to do that on (that are kept in a decent state of repair) are the tables you see on the telly.

pocket tightness for a decent player doesnt enter your thoughts...

If you have the white... you never leave a pot you can miss anyway.

[vmax4steve]

I get what you're saying... but pocket tightness isn't really a factor when making tons...

It's the ability to control the white. The hardest tables to do that on (that are kept in a decent state of repair) are the tables you see on the telly.

pocket tightness for a decent player doesnt enter your thoughts...

If you have the white... you never leave a pot you can miss anyway.

Of course it's all about the cue ball, but when the reds break and there are one or two on or near a cushion and you're playing on a tight table that you have played hundreds of frames on and missed hundreds of those sort of shots before, however decent you are, it's in your head.

Once you get used to the speed, stroking the cue ball on a fast table with generous pockets surely is easier than thumping the cue ball around a slow table with tight pockets, the ratio of tons in the pro game has gone through the roof since playing conditions like this were introduced. I don't take the hype that players are better now, Davis, White, Higgins, Reardon, Spencer & co were all top class cueists and played the game the table conditions allowed, as young men they would still be competing at the top of the game today.

[lennon11]

Played on a star last nite for the first time...I found the middle bags fine,the corners are extremely tight when playing balls down the cushion but because of the fast cloth and bed heaters you can just concentrate on hitting the ball sweet so break building if anything seemed easier even taking into account the really really tight pockets.

[vmax4steve]

Spencer was a great cueist, but the players are better now and Davis has said this. The excellent (unusual for them) BBC piece he did on century making and centuries increasing over time proves this point.

Of course he said this, he has to sell the game for his employer. Centuries have increased over time due to table conditions getting easier; no one today is better than Davis at his peak, long red, 70 break and frame over. It's a myth that he was a great safety player, his game went down when the phenolic resin balls were introduced and he like many of the older top pros at the time struggled for consistancy with them.
The table conditions had to change to suit these balls and the subconscious knowledge of the natural game these players had instilled into them over decades suddenly became at odds with the new conditions. They had to start thinking about how the balls would react to how they struck them because it was all just a little bit different, and as we all know thought is the mind killer in snooker.

This happens every time table conditions change, a new generation takes over far more quickly than they would have otherwise as the older generation struggle to get to grips with changing their natural game. By the time they do the newer generation are off in the distance and uncatchable.

This has happened in football as well, the ball now is a little over half the weight it was in the 1950's and even non league players can bend it like Beckham. All those super long range goals that fly in week after week are not a result of footballers being better than they used to be fifty years ago, it's because it's easier as the ball now compresses on impact with the foot and expands and contracts as it flies through the air making it wobble, dip and turn. Players can strike the ball as hard with the side of their foot as you could with the instep years ago and the skill levels needed to hit long range shots like Charlton and Eusabio used to are less now.

The spanish munchkins couldn't have played the football they do now in the 1950's as the ball just couldn't be flicked around then like it can be now.

Judd Trump couldn't have played those long range screw shots using the crystalate balls of the 1950's & 60's as they were far too heavy, he would have had to play the same game as all the others did back then because that what the conditions dictated.

[lennon11]

How did you find cue ball control? Did you lose it and have too much cue power at times?

found in amoungst the balls was fine, however safety took some adjusting and playing with side on long shots almost impossible to control.

[GeordieDS]

Made me laugh this - V max means old billiard tables which where much harder than a snooker table to play on - There is one in every town somewhere - you have to roll em in dead centre at the right weight on some tables or it spits it out - tables of death worse if they have a bad cloth and cushions that make the white jump on one side and dead on the other - put a light white on and dull lighting and there are some pro's that could not make a ton on some of these babies for sure.

The East End Liberal Club on Heaton Road has an old billiards table in it and it's bloody awful, the worst thing is they have two teams in the league which means i have to play on it twice a year