Another cue refinishing thread about linseed oils and grain fillers

[Shockerz]

Hi Marc, glad you are still selling the Halo catches! Busted one the other day so ordered some from the website yesterday. Big saving on a new case!!

Yes mate, still keeping a reasonable stock of most catches as hoping to get back making cases in the next few weeks once the workshop revamp is complete. Hopefully I should also be able to get back mixing all my finishing oils, oil / wax mixes, grain fillers and cue balms. I had so many on the go that I had to get some decent notes as it was getting confusing every time a cue finisher asked for some more lol

[Shockerz]

It sounds that raw linseed oil is not your favorite oil, may I ask what you like to use the most? That burnishing thing sounds like a good idea to me, very few oil for each coat, a lot of buffing, a lot of drying time.

What do you think of the Mylands oil I posted above, do you think it could be a good choice (no driers, but thicker and much faster drying times)?

I probably didn't word it very well but I like raw linseed oil along with many other types of oils, waxes and mixes.

I tend to see what sort of feel the customer likes if they have a preference and then use that. I can use anything from an oil, a wax, an oil wax mix, I also have many oil mixtures and it depends whether it is for the butt or the shaft. Very occasionally I may even use a thin coat of glue on the butt, sanding sealer and buff only or even French polish or friction polish, I guess I dabble too much.

I also like to mix particular cleaners that will put a thin coat on most finishes, I then cut it back really lightly with steel wool, buff it like mad and then it is supper smooth for 2 or 3 weeks and I use it again.

Personally I prefer an oil mixture or an oil/wax mixture on the shaft, on the butt I would have an oil/wax mixture again buffed like mad or sanding sealer only using polishing grade micromesh, feels great in your hand.

Mylands is also good as long as I get the excess off in a decent timeframe, buff like mad and cut back with steel wool between coats. You also have to keep a good eye on the drying progress.

[weepete]

Yeah, the carpet's got a small stain now, but it's an old one that's seen better days in our spare room so doesn't really matter I'll look forward to the pics.

[JayRizzie]

Glad it worked for you mate!

I just got some Legends grain filler in the post (advice: leave it for a good amount of time to settle before opening if you ever do get some! Mine had been upside down for a bit and resulted in black hands and a bit on my carpet when opened ). That one is definatley oil based, though quite liquid and works pretty well.

Thanks, I'm surprised myself how well and easy it turned out That's very cool you tried the Legends stuff, I'm sure it's very nice. 30 GBP incl. shipping was just to expensive for me compared to 6 GBP. Hope your hands and your carpet doing well so far 😅

Short update on the cue:
I oiled it with 2 coats of the Mylands BLO (mostly used in antique restoration and film sets according to my local vendor) so far and I like it very much. This stuff dries reasonably within 48 hours and fires up the cue intensively and get's it a stunning depth look. After the first coat, I polished it all the time and it got a nice and even satin sheen from it, without being sticky (due to the thin coats applied)

One thing about the choice of oils I might add regarding the coloration/yellowing:
Oils are known to darken and saturate the woods to a certain extent (both linseed and tung oil the most), whereby linseed oil seems to have a tendency to further darken over time, especially when stored in the dark. For me this gives it a awesome slight honeyish color, which is noticeable the most for the olivewood buttend on the Peradon King cue (previously it was rather bright and dull, now very rich in color and more "brown").
If you don't like this look and want to retain more or less the same bright color as when being sanded, there is bleached linseed oil out there ("Lackleinöl hell" in Germany) from the painting world. This will obviously have longer drying times than BLO, but faster than regular raw linseed oil. For the last coat, you can use bleached standoil, which is prepolymerized by heating without oxygen and is said to give the most gloss. It doesn't soak very well into the wood because of its viscosity and should be applied only in very thin coats for good drying, since it builds fast a outer skin, which prevents inner layers to dry really slowly.
Might be useful for some owners of maple cues or someone, who likes bright ash.

That being said, I love the slight saturated look (gives it a precious appearence to me) and hope it will stay that way when beeing stored in the case. I will post some photos at the end, when all coats are finished

Cheers

[weepete]

Glad it worked for you mate!

I just got some Legends grain filler in the post (advice: leave it for a good amount of time to settle before opening if you ever do get some! Mine had been upside down for a bit and resulted in black hands and a bit on my carpet when opened ). That one is definatley oil based, though quite liquid and works pretty well.

[JayRizzie]

Thank you weepete & DeanH for your very informative posts, I think I will not use steel wool then and buff it in between coats with a regular microfibre towel.

A short update on what I have done on sunday. I sanded down the whole cue first with 400 grit to get rid of the old oil finish, then proceeded with 800 grit for a smoother surface und leveling down the raised grain. For the grain filler, I decided to go for the water based Clou wood filler (black), which is cheap and easily available in stores over here as some german luthiers tend to use it for mahagony grain filling. It is more of a thick paste, so I thinned it a little with few drops of water and rubbed it in firmly with a cloth on the cue till it was covered completely black. After around 20min, I took the excess of with a damp cloth, resulting in a very darkened cue. After around 2 hours (this stuff dries fast!), I sanded the shaft down first with 800 grit, then 1200 grit.

The result is really phenomenal, the difference is night and day. The grain is now very pronounced, but moreover, the grain is properly filled and the surface is so incredibly smooth, no more stubble pulling and it glides through the fingers without feeling any grain I'd love to leave it that way, but I hope the oil finish won't destroy this feeling too much.

So until now, I didn't notice any grain raising or warping, I guess I can recommend water based grain fillers for now. Let's see how it works with the oil finish

[weepete]

Tacky = not dry.
Also, what I have not read (maybe missed it) but after raw Linseed oil is dry "wipe down" is not enough, you have to "buff till your arm aches"
If still tacky, then go an wash and thoprou8ghly dry your hands

Good point about the buffing, I do tend to use a microfibre cloth and give it a good rub down as well, though the times I've re-finished a cue I just did it until I thought it felt good. My touch is pretty highly tuned, so I trust it a lot.

Tacky to me means there's some stickyness to it. I've not had that with raw linseed oil, though I fully admit I've not got any significant experience in cues. Only going on what I tried before and what I found. For me, it's a superior finish using raw, though I respect if other's opinion is different.

[DeanH]

Tacky = not dry.
Also, what I have not read (maybe missed it) but after raw Linseed oil is dry "wipe down" is not enough, you have to "buff till your arm aches"
If still tacky, then go an wash and thoprou8ghly dry your hands

[weepete]

That actually sounds quite promising. I also had in mind to sand it (or buff it with steel wool) in between the coats. My question here would be, if the cue still feels a little tacky after wiping down the occasional excess, so after which time do you think it is perfectly playable?

The raw oil doesn't get tacky at all. It's either absorbed into the wood or is an oil consistency. I'd say it's playable after giving the last coat 24 hours and then a good wipe down. Definatley playable if you can leave it an additional 24 hours.

It'll get very slightly better as you play with it, and how long that takes depends on how often you play, how long you play for, what the cue is like, and the environment.

It's not an exact science, takes a bit of time, but you can feel the difference in the cue with enough coats have absorbed and cured.

I'm not a fan of using steel wool on things like cues....maybe some use it, but you can get micro shards of metal that can then imbed in your skin. Wet and dry can go to very fine grades and should be more than enough unless you are french polishing, and with cues you want a little bit of feel to remind you it's wood.

[Cue crafty]

If I ever use a raw linseed oil, once I feel the shaft is full of oil, the excess has been wiped clear and we have left it a good time to dry I will always burnish it to 'cook' the oil into the wood pores. This always help seal the oil in that bit extra for me and then once happy I'll cut it back so slightly with 0000 steel wool.

Hi Marc, glad you are still selling the Halo catches! Busted one the other day so ordered some from the website yesterday. Big saving on a new case!!

[JayRizzie]

the ash on the Peradon is different to the other cue so could be difficult to achieve the same finish without sanding it right back, and that would open up a can of worms.

So therefore I want to use a grain filler. My plan ist to first sand the cue down with 800 grit until the surface coat (oil finish) is gone, then clean the grain with steel wool and apply the grain filler. The residue will be wiped off and after a day of drying, the cue will be sanded again with first 800 grit and then 1200 grit, so only the grain is darkened and filled and the cue surface is smooth. After that, I'm gonna aplly the first oil coating, again wipe off the residue after 30-60min, let it dry and burnish it. This step will be repeated until the cue doesn't take any oil anymore (can take up to 5 coats from what I read, but has to be handled individually). After I'm done with all that, I will let the cue rest for some time for complete curing of the oil.

So the only question marks for me are here, if a water based grain filler works fine for that and if I should chose rather a raw or the mentioned hot-blown linseed oil. At the moment I'm considering the latter one with a water-based filler, since oil-based ones are difficult to get here.

[j6uk]

the ash on the Peradon is different to the other cue so could be difficult to achieve the same finish without sanding it right back, and that would open up a can of worms.

[JayRizzie]

If I ever use a raw linseed oil, once I feel the shaft is full of oil, the excess has been wiped clear and we have left it a good time to dry I will always burnish it to 'cook' the oil into the wood pores. This always help seal the oil in that bit extra for me and then once happy I'll cut it back so slightly with 0000 steel wool.

It sounds that raw linseed oil is not your favorite oil, may I ask what you like to use the most? That burnishing thing sounds like a good idea to me, very few oil for each coat, a lot of buffing, a lot of drying time.

What do you think of the Mylands oil I posted above, do you think it could be a good choice (no driers, but thicker and much faster drying times)?

[JayRizzie]

The first couple of coats took about 4-6 hours to absorb, then the next couple I left for 24 hours. I sanded in between with 1200 grit wet and dry and it ended up glassy smooth, but with a little grain feel on the shaft. After it was done it took a couple of sessions to settle down, as a warm hand could raise a little oil from the wood. An occasional wipe down sorted that during play though.

I've just refinished a recent cue I bought the same way, but only gave it 2 coats and didn't sand after the last one, so it may just depend on the cue.

Ultimatley, there's only one way to know what you like, and that's to try it out. Could always get a bit of scrap ash to test finishes out on, before you try it on your brothers cue.

That actually sounds quite promising. I also had in mind to sand it (or buff it with steel wool) in between the coats. My question here would be, if the cue still feels a little tacky after wiping down the occasional excess, so after which time do you think it is perfectly playable?

[JayRizzie]

This is a project you’re determined to do yourself? As it would be better to give it to someone experienced who has all the ingredients .

Yeah for two reasons, first I love to learn new things and second, I couldn't find any known cuemaker in Germany whom I could give it to. To my knowledge they are all UK based and since Brexit, this could easily very costly with customs, delivery, etc.