Cue position when applying side

[wayync]

Hi all, really confused here.

So when using side, say right hand side, hitting the ball at 3 o'clock, would the correct way to position your cue be straight or angled?

When I say straight I mean both the tip AND butt is at 3 o'clock so basically you have moved your whole cue across, and angled I mean your tip is at 3 o'clock and your butt still at center position.

Reason I ask is that some people say you should be cueing through the ball even when using side.

But I find that cueing across the ball at an angle produces alot less throw.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Gerry Armstrong]

Straight.

The reason you get less throw cueing across is you are applying less side that you think/want.

[nrage]

The other reason you get "less" throw is that when you cue across the white the throw is in the direction of the original line of aim so you just don't see it as much. The ball is round, so if you re-imagine the shot as if you were cueing straight instead of across - i.e. move the line of aim so that you are no longer cueing across then you will "see" the same throw, not less.

There is a theory that with the correct bridge length for your cue you can exactly compensate for the amount of throw and essentially end up with it being "impossible" to apply any throw no matter where you hit the white, see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5T3ai0SM1aw&feature=plcp

In American pool it's called "back hand english". I've tried it briefly on a pool table here, but I think the cues we have are so light that they apply just about no throw, and consequently just about no side spin either

I haven't tried it on a snooker table, but I can imagine it is less useful as over distance the swerve effect of side will take effect.

[Dannyboy]

You must have your cue at an angle to get maximum side on the cue ball. A fatal mistake by players is forgetting to adjust their aim to allow for the side when playing shots with side, as the aiming point is different to what you think it is.

[nrage]

You must have your cue at an angle to get maximum side on the cue ball. A fatal mistake by players is forgetting to adjust their aim to allow for the side when playing shots with side, as the aiming point is different to what you think it is.

Whether the cue is "at an angle" or not depends on how you're thinking about the shot. If your line-of-aim-without-side (original) is in one place the line of aim for a shot with side (new) will be "at an angle" to that. The cue will be parallel the the new line of aim, and therefore "at an angle" to the original line of aim. But, the cue is not "at an angle" to the new line of aim, it's parallel to it.

Is that what you're saying? Or do you cue "at an angle" to the adjusted/new line of aim as well?

[Dannyboy]

You must have your cue at an angle to get maximum side on the cue ball. A fatal mistake by players is forgetting to adjust their aim to allow for the side when playing shots with side, as the aiming point is different to what you think it is.

Also when the cue ball hits the object ball then the white comes off a cushion side on the cue ball has more effect when played at a slower pace.

[nrage]

Also when the cue ball hits the object ball then the white comes off a cushion side on the cue ball has more effect when played at a slower pace.

Yep Just hitting the ball harder causes the angle off the cushion to "narrow", reducing the side. Another interesting thing about side spin off cushions is that it has most effect when the white goes directly into the cushion, and less effect when the white goes into it at an angle, the flatter/smaller the angle the less effect the side spin has.

These videos are the best I've found for describing the effects of side etc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J0I6IgLlo8&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oii0UhnYjCc&feature=plcp

Thinking of the shot in terms of A path, B path, and knowing when side spin has an effect is important. I've seen countless players who think side spin affects the path of the white off the object ball, and it really doesn't - not to any useful degree.

[Dannyboy]

Yep Just hitting the ball harder causes the angle off the cushion to "narrow", reducing the side. Another interesting thing about side spin off cushions is that it has most effect when the white goes directly into the cushion, and less effect when the white goes into it at an angle, the flatter/smaller the angle the less effect the side spin has.

These videos are the best I've found for describing the effects of side etc:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2J0I6IgLlo8&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oii0UhnYjCc&feature=plcp

Thinking of the shot in terms of A path, B path, and knowing when side spin has an effect is important. I've seen countless players who think side spin affects the path of the white off the object ball, and it really doesn't - not to any useful degree.

Like most players when first trying to understand the effects of side,there is no better place to learn about then on the practice table trying different shots. I thought i knew a a lot about side until i started playing Billiards as on many shots you apply the opposite side to what you think on the cue ball lol

[vmax4steve]

You must have your cue at an angle to get maximum side on the cue ball. A fatal mistake by players is forgetting to adjust their aim to allow for the side when playing shots with side, as the aiming point is different to what you think it is.

Wrong Dannyboy, the cue should be parallel so that you are not cueing across the cue ball. This bloke explains it better than anyone else I've seen on youtube and he is a certified coach.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmyWVw-8C64

[Dannyboy]

Like most players when first trying to understand the effects of side,there is no better place to learn about then on the practice table trying different shots. I thought i knew a a lot about side until i started playing Billiards as on many shots you apply the opposite side to what you think on the cue ball lol

P.S when i mention Billiards i mean English Billiards as not to confuse our American/Canadian players.

[Dannyboy]

Wrong Dannyboy, the cue should be parallel so that you are not cueing across the cue ball. This bloke explains it better than anyone else I've seen on youtube and he is a certified coach.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmyWVw-8C64

There are many Certified Coaches my friend and they dont all sing from the same Hymn book. I will stick to what i know is fact!!!

[Dannyboy]

There are many Certified Coaches my friend and they dont all sing from the same Hymn book. I will stick to what i know is fact!!!

P.S depending on what sort of shot you are playing, i dont use this method when potting ball's.

[Gerry Armstrong]

There are many Certified Coaches my friend and they dont all sing from the same Hymn book. I will stick to what i know is fact!!!

Every coach that I know of (and I don't know them all by any means) advocates that one of the basic fundamentals of Snooker is delivering the cue in a straight line along the line of aim. I have yet to meet one or hear of one who doesn't believe that this is true.

Cueing across the white to achieve sidespin violates this basic principle.

[Terry Davidson]

As one of those certified coaches (who has coached Wayne too!) I say when applying side the line of aim of the cue should be parallel to the same line of aim as when using centre-ball striking.

The problem with most average players is they use far too much side for the shot and end up either missing the pot because of the extreme throw of the cueball or else just making the pot into the side of the pocket and missing out on position.

The other thing I've found (thanks to Willy Thorne I believe) is a lot of players, even very good ones, use side on the cueball even though it won't hit a cushion to 'help' them make the pot easier. Willy must have learned to play this way however using side correctly is a hard thing to do and control as every table, cueball, object ball and cue could be different and also throw will depend on the amount of power in the shot.

I have watched one of the pros on TV using side when playing a safety shot and he does this on every safety shot even when it's not necessary. His accuracy on safety shots sucks and he has never been in the top 16. This same player uses side on most pots too when it's not needed.

Terry

[throtts]

I have watched one of the pros on TV using side when playing a safety shot and he does this on every safety shot even when it's not necessary. His accuracy on safety shots sucks and he has never been in the top 16. This same player uses side on most pots too when it's not needed.

Terry

Peter Ebdon loves using huge amounts of side on safety shots..