cue rotation - good or bad?

[j6uk]

cue rotation is unavoidable. even if your holding the cue real tight, with no wrist involved and even cueing purely from the elbow, there will be fractional rotation.
so again its about timing right?! and how much your turning the cue. (if the moment of impact of the cue ball feels little rotation of the cue, your not cueing across the cue ball, you've finding the middle of the white, and you've timed the shot right.. then bingo)

stop popping from the sphincter and do your apprenticeship on the baulk line. all the best have 'and still do' it.. even nic barrows has done plenty of time on the line, baulk line

[tabularaza]

As I said I'm a beginner and I want to get the fundamentals right (first stand, than walk and afterwards think about running )
I went to the club yesterday and trained for about 4 hours to see what is actually happening.

Actually Tel if you hold the cue in the crook of your fingers only without closing the thumb, the cue will twist as the fingers open and close without the wrist moving at all. Maybe this is what is happening.

That pretty much what is happening. My thumb is straight down slightly touching the cue.

@Terry: My wrist isn't twisting. It just goes slightly back on the backswing andcomes forward at the end of the shot, when I hit my chest. At that position the cue also touches my palm.
Idon't know how get the thumb streight down through the whole shot because the angle of the nuckles changes.
According to Higgens' rotation: Maybe there is something wrong with my eyesight then...

@j6uk: That's encouraging and your description fits my current cueing (rotaionwise). And you're absolutely right about the baulkline. That's what I did yesterday. Playing the white for 2h up and down the baulk line. Then I went on and played the white along the spots across the table. I did that for another 2h. I now have a 50/50 chance for the cueball hitting the tip of the on its way back or it comes about a ball of. So there is still a lot of work to do

Thanks aagain for you replies

[j6uk]

no balls needed..sfa and get on the baulk line

[Terry Davidson]

I thought about this cue rotation being 'unavoidable' as stated by vmax and j6uk so I went down to the table yesterday morning and took a look at my chevrons during a long backswing (bringing the ferrule back to the 'V' of the bridge). I felt any rotation of the cue at all would take the butt of the cue slightly off the line of aim and therefore the player would have (technically) a backswing which wasn't straight.

I could not see any rotation at all. I used the forefinger and thumb 'grip' on the cue and then I tried the second finger and then I tried the first 2 fingers and then I tried the back 3 fingers. There was no rotation of the cue at all using any of these grips.

Being a detailed kind of guy I then used a piece of white chalk on the butt of my cue, drawing a cross on it and then setting the camera up directly behind the grip hand and at the same level and took some videos of the back of the cue during a long backswing to see if there was any rotation at all. (Turns out I didn't really need the chalk cross as I have a photo lamp which provides good light and the flat of the butt was clearly visible).

I then tried rotating or letting the cue roll a bit (about 1/16 turn) on my forefinger and it was plainly visible the butt did come off the line of aim slightly.

So, with that in mind I will state 'the cue should not rotate at all during either the backswing or the delivery until (perhaps) the very end of the delivery when the back of the grip hand thumb hits the chest and the cue is forced to turn a bit.

Terry

[ace man]

I can avoid cue rotation on backswing completely only by locking the wrist and having it a bit cocked like Ronnie, Murphy...etc. But then the whole action feels like yipsy ****e to me, very stiff. Not to mention that it feels forced and uncomfortable precisely because it is NOT my grip...i.e. I am imitating bits and pieces from other player's grips, however good they may be.
My grip is probably too loose and little bit uncontrolled, no locking of wrist at all, a bit 9ball-ish if you like, so of course there is a bit of cue turning during backswing. But out of the two evils, I choose being too loose rather than too stiff.
Table time will compensate for all physical faults...

[j6uk]

So, with that in mind I will state 'the cue should not rotate at all during either the backswing or the delivery until (perhaps) the very end of the delivery when the back of the grip hand thumb hits the chest and the cue is forced to turn a bit.

Terry

the cue will rotate.even if your cueing nice and bang on in the heat of battle, whatever, it will rotate, some shots more that others.
i know im gonna feel the heat from nics beach boys, but that's it

[j6uk]

get on the baulk line, do your homework, watch the tip going along that baulk line, just like in real play, and you'll see all the rewards in your game instantaneously

[tabularaza]

I thought about this cue rotation being 'unavoidable' as stated by vmax and j6uk so I went down to the table yesterday morning and took a look at my chevrons during a long backswing (bringing the ferrule back to the 'V' of the bridge). I felt any rotation of the cue at all would take the butt of the cue slightly off the line of aim and therefore the player would have (technically) a backswing which wasn't straight.

I could not see any rotation at all. I used the forefinger and thumb 'grip' on the cue and then I tried the second finger and then I tried the first 2 fingers and then I tried the back 3 fingers. There was no rotation of the cue at all using any of these grips.

Being a detailed kind of guy I then used a piece of white chalk on the butt of my cue, drawing a cross on it and then setting the camera up directly behind the grip hand and at the same level and took some videos of the back of the cue during a long backswing to see if there was any rotation at all. (Turns out I didn't really need the chalk cross as I have a photo lamp which provides good light and the flat of the butt was clearly visible).

I then tried rotating or letting the cue roll a bit (about 1/16 turn) on my forefinger and it was plainly visible the butt did come off the line of aim slightly.

So, with that in mind I will state 'the cue should not rotate at all during either the backswing or the delivery until (perhaps) the very end of the delivery when the back of the grip hand thumb hits the chest and the cue is forced to turn a bit.

Terry

Wow, you really put some effort in to analyse my situation. I really appreciate it. Thank you mate.
I'll be training on Wednesday and keeping your statement in mind. Then I'll be able to give a more detailed answer.
Do you have a download link for your video? That would be intersting.

j6uk

get on the baulk line, do your homework, watch the tip going along that baulk line, just like in real play, and you'll see all the rewards in your game instantaneously

Thanks for your advise. I will do that for 1 or 2 hours on Wednesday.

---

In my opinion it ist quite intersting to see how this topic develops. It seem to be a little controversial.

[j6uk]

In my opinion it ist quite intersting to see how this topic develops. It seem to be a little controversial.

not really. just be wise about your game.
if someone talks too much, its always a bad sign no?

[tabularaza]

I finally found a video which illustrates my cuie-rotation. It is pretty old though, i know.

not really. just be wise about your game.
if someone talks too much, its always a bad sign no?

That's the whole idea i.e. reflecting my action and learning. But that would be a different topic and more of a philosophical question.

[tabularaza]

Sorry for double posting, but I cant edit. Watch at 06:09

[cyberheater]

I finally found a video which illustrates my cuie-rotation. It is pretty old though, i know.




That's the whole idea i.e. reflecting my action and learning. But that would be a different topic and more of a philosophical question.

Good video. Thanks.

[j6uk]

its not so easy to rotate the cue if the eye of the hand is it contact all the way through the shot

[Terry Davidson]

Note there that Terry is tightening the grip as he delivers and even worse his wrist joint moves as he tightens those fingers. That is not considered good form. J6uk has it right...I use the 'eye' between forefinger and thumb with the thumb pointing straight down and my cue doesn't rotate like Terry's does in this video.

No way to tell if he's taking it off the line of aim in this video though.

Maybe this won't be too verbose for j6uk

Terry

[vmax4steve]

Note there that Terry is tightening the grip as he delivers and even worse his wrist joint moves as he tightens those fingers. That is not considered good form. J6uk has it right...I use the 'eye' between forefinger and thumb with the thumb pointing straight down and my cue doesn't rotate like Terry's does in this video.

Terry

I wouldn't say he is tightening the grip, simply opening and closing his fingers, including the front two that actually hold the cue. I suppose Terry that you don't open and close the front two fingers, only the back two in order to stop your cue rotating.
Myself I open and close all the fingers of my grip hand and my cue also does rotate a little bit within my hand. My thumb doesn't point straight down at the address position, it bends at the top joint to come back and rest againt the top joint of my forefinger (like Steve Davis), but does open up and point straight down on the backswing when I open my fingers.

Played great today nonetheless, for me anyway, had a total clearance in the line up while listening to AC/DC's 'If You Want Blood You've Got It' album on my MP3 player.
Do the Bad Boy Boogie !