Helping side

[jonny66]

subconsciously suggests it's nothing to do with the cue

[DeanH]

Helping side


not the cue no
you the player unconsciously adjusts the cue alignment to compensate for whatever you need for that particular shot.
or I maybe way off base

[DandyA]

http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/bjZXkLm2Ykc/
If you can be bothered, 1 hr 39 mins into this video Jack Karnehm talks about throw and how using side " throws the object ball into the pocket"
It's not the fastest loading site so it takes a bit of patience.

yes but it's well known that Jack Karnehm only said that because he was selling low deflection cues

[j6uk]

Sigh.

Throw when using english is as accepted as draw is when using bottom. This is not a debate and your opinion is bollox.

Get some education and stop embarrassing yourself. There is a wealth of information out there on the physics of pocket billiards if you are unable to see it for yourself when playing.

why is it when i use side the ball goes straight, is it something to do with the cue? or the way i hit the ball, in terms of timing and going not too far out of the center of the white to create the side necessary?

[mythman69]

yes but it's well known that Jack Karnehm only said that because he was selling low deflection cues

Maybe I need one of those cues

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Sigh.

Throw when using english is as accepted as draw is when using bottom. This is not a debate and your opinion is bollox.

Get some education and stop embarrassing yourself. There is a wealth of information out there on the physics of pocket billiards if you are unable to see it for yourself when playing.

why is it when i use side the ball goes straight, is it something to do with the cue? or the way i hit the ball, in terms of timing and going not too far out of the center of the white to create the side necessary?

Firstly, throw is minimal on a snooker table and our brains, over time, learn to adjust to it anyway, so you won't necessarily notice it. You have adjusted where you aim and how you hit the ball to take it into account without realising it. It will become far more apparent on an american pool table, where the throw on longer shots can be measured in feet rather than inches, probably.

You do need a LOT of side, far more than you'd use routinely, and the larger, heavier balls of american pool produce more spin than the smaller and lighter english pool or snooker. Interesting, if you only use a little side, you get what is called 'gearing', which negates all throw, i believe.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

Sales? Christ...

Auto-adjusting = adjusting automatically, or subconsciously. Sorry if that was confusing for you.

well, to be honest,, it is confusing for me too,, do you mean that a cue can adjusting automatically the direction ( side) on the CB ??
I know, this is a conversation between you and J6.
but this is a forum and sometimes people ask questions.
I hope you don't mind!!
I'll appreciate it if you explain this ,,,

Lol! A self adjusting cue is a great idea, you'll make a fortune. Get dr dave to shill it for you

Did you see the recent itv documentary on jimmy white, where he said he was completely self trained and had no idea HOW he potted balls, he just learned the game as he played? Today, thanks to hardcore physics nerds like dr dave, we now know how the balls interact upon contact in ways players from the past simply couldnt do. High speed video allows us to see exactly whats happening and shows us how the eye can deceive us.

The question is, is it better to know, or is ignorance bliss? I would advise venturing into this territory only if you're a hardcore nerd with too much time on your hands. Otherwise, let the brain take over.

[itsnoteasy]

Just a little note, my question was answered about 15 pages ago, it's running side (outside english to be precise). Could you not start another thread called the infernal debate about sidespin, or something like that. Just so future forum searchers don't have to wade through pages and pages of arguments to find an answer?

Yep it has spiralled into cueball throw when played with side, the Video with Jack Karnehm is explaining helping side, his example shows him using right hand side to cut the black to the left, he aims to the outside of the pocket and the side throws the black into the pocket, that's according to Jack, but what does he know

[Catch 22]

Lol! A self adjusting cue is a great idea, you'll make a fortune. Get dr dave to shill it for you

Did you see the recent itv documentary on jimmy white, where he said he was completely self trained and had no idea HOW he potted balls, he just learned the game as he played? Today, thanks to hardcore physics nerds like dr dave, we now know how the balls interact upon contact in ways players from the past simply couldnt do. High speed video allows us to see exactly whats happening and shows us how the eye can deceive us.

The question is, is it better to know, or is ignorance bliss? I would advise venturing into this territory only if you're a hardcore nerd with too much time on your hands. Otherwise, let the brain take over.

I like to know . But I think overall ignorance is bliss . Whenever I ask really good players in the club how they play a certain shot or about their technique , most of them just give a rye smile and say " dunno how , I just do it ".

[Terry Davidson]

I think j6 and a couple of others have it exactly right. Most players will use too much side when it's only necessary to go just outside the centre of the white in most cases and if you use the correct minimal side then 'ignorance is bliss'.

Terry

[Byrom]

Well shoot me down too then.

I think pedantic stroke is correct with his posts - the ball does squirt or throw off - otherwise you could just imagine a plant position for every ball - this method works better on close to the pocket type shots and is why I don't like the ghost ball technique as a fully reliable method.

This imagine a plant method does not work at distance plain ball on cuts because you have a moving ball hitting a stationary one - and it will hit it thick - I find adding a touch of helping side which I do do naturally when I play does aid these cuts.

There is geometry involved - 90 degree rule for example - but not necessary to master all of it perhaps as it could confuse and harm your natural flow - but people will search for short cuts to improving all the time - I think the best way you pick out a potting angle is by playing that angle over and over and storing it to your memory banks.

I told one poster on here if you do the line up and miss a shot do it again three times until you pot it three times and store the angle in your memory.

Minimal side is good and hitting plain ball but you should also endeavour to experiment too as these other shots do come into the game.

[itsnoteasy]

I think j6 and a couple of others have it exactly right. Most players will use too much side when it's only necessary to go just outside the centre of the white in most cases and if you use the correct minimal side then 'ignorance is bliss'.

Terry

But has that anything to do with helping side, helping side is making the object ball react differently on contact, not how much your cue pushes the cue ball offline when using side, or have I got it wrong?

[j6uk]

america pool balls don't do helping side

[j6uk]

pool cues are the same as snooker in terms of resonance and the less give the less squirt the less jiz

[golferson123]

been suffering from a lack of jizz for awhile