dominant eye what is the best way to test it????

[Ramon]

I think people want to be good at something in five minutes or pack it in or have a hissy fit and say they can't do it. Good players say it's simple because it is for them, they have put the hard work in. What is it they say it's 10,000 hours you have to put in to get to the best you can be, well that's a far cry from 20 hours on here talking about the minutiae of it and a couple of sessions down the club.
You want snooker to be a simple game, go and put some work in.

to be honest, i think if you ask a good snooker player which eye he uses or how he do it ,, your answer would be : I HAVE NO IDEA .

[Shockerz]

Agreed 100%
Most good players have self selected which is one reason why they are good players!
The one's who self selected incorrectly or through wrong advice can never progress and that is so sad because they are locked out of improvement in their game.

I used to do a lot of performance coaching at work and once you came across a person with a closed mind it took ages to open their world up to 3D!

I used to concentrate on coaching the willing first so they would improve first; the wholesale improvement by the many always attracted the rest eventually as improvement can been seen and measured.

Lots of the managers used to feel they were good managers until you opened their eyes to what others were doing and thinking; the ones that poo poo'd stuff usually stayed at the same level as they were always using the same, limiting thought process.

Anyway, getting a little too deep...............

[Shockerz]

Yes it is so frustrating for players to hear players say ' I dont know how i pot - I just kinda do it, yunnow?'. But what if you don't know?! I was like that in my own game when learning - and it was a very slow chiselling process to reduce my variables and get the fundamentals automatic.
Ronnie himself said I think in his book that he just focuses on the fundamentals in his game - the rest falls into place.

This reminds me of a programme I watched that showed Jimmy White's eldest daughter asking him how he does it and he just does......he doesn't know how.

[itsnoteasy]

90% of players naturally find their vision centre without needing to know any of this stuff.
In my experience, the clients who come to me completely messed up with their aiming have followed some dogma about 'cueing under the dominant eye', 'cueing in the centre of the chin', 'cueing where ronnie cues' etc etc without having had a clue that they probably would have found it with no advice at all - and if they didnt they must go through a vision centre test that finds their own individual vision centre.

Paralysis by analysis , one of the best quotes I have read on here.

[tetricky]

That may be the case for you, and if so you must stay loyal to that - well done for finding that.
Once you have found vision centre, there is not need to change it for certain angled shots and no pro does this - as that would cause confusion, inconsistent repeatability, and a slightly negative mindset ('I can't aim a thing black in my normal head position so should shift it a bit').... and when would you know the exact angle at which you have to switch? And would you even remember it under pressure?
BUT it is very dangerous in my opinion to indicate to players that they should cue under their dominant eye just because it works for you (you seem to be suggesting that - or having made it completely clear to me at any rate that you are NOT suggesting that?)
The dominant eye is not responsible for the line of aim to an object - because in that case centre chin sighters would not survive on the pro circuit.
Everyone has on all encompassing optimum vision centre right for them - and knowing our 'dominant' (or stronger - and both are distinct) is irrelevant.
All you need is a reliable vision centre test, and stick to the best head position for you on every shot you play.

I was more saying that i have found a value in looking at off-striaght shots when looking to find the head position. A straight shot is a simplified case that does not require the same level of peripheral vision, and that can affect how you see the shot.

[Shockerz]

Try having a read here. Have a go on a table, starting with your cue under your dominant eye, and trying more towards the centre of your chin, over to the other eye, and even outside the eyes. Hit a straight shot (blue off the spot into the centre pocket, screw back into the opposite centre pocket) for each head position (make sure you do normal prep, and walk into each shot). See what position you see the shot best from.

What I can tell you is that the dominant eye is responsible for the line of aim to an object. how much other factors come in to play is dependent on the circumstances of the shot, and maybe its in these circumstances when peripheral vision is more of a factor, that compromise position changes.

Having hit the ball straight, now try a half ball cut on the blue, into the middle bag......you might find that changes...because you now need peripheral vision more.

For me it's very close to the dominant eye position....but sometimes it does shift a little. never far away, but sometimes a little nearer to the centre.

I can't really tell you why.

I do best (on average) having cue, dominant eye, and bridge and grip hand all in line. i used to cue centre of the eyes. I hit a glass ceiling that i couldn't get past. I am now starting to improve again.

YMMV

After watching your video I hit what felt like a few hundred balls on Sunday morning with the cue under my chin, and inch to the right and right under my right eye. I potted long Blues from 2 ft away into the black pocket and from 4 ft away into the same pocket with the cue in all three positions (I also did some straight into the middle pocket and cue'd along the bulk line and up and down the spots and learned the following:


The table
When cueing along the bulk line - The table bulk line has a belly in it which pushed the ball against the nap from both sides so not incorrect cueing (so that ones out).
Down the spots - When I look down from the brown spot to the black spot the spots weren't level!
Make sure your tables spot on before you start changing your set up!

Long blues / reds from Blue spot to end pocket, white 2 ft and 4 ft from middle spot

Chin - Average between 2 and 3 out of 5.
1 inch from chin - Average of 3.
Directly under right eye (dominant and stronger eye /Preferred) - Average between 4 and 5 out of 5 each time when directly under right eye.
I also noticed that by bringing my left foot round to square my elbow straightened up and pushed the cue through easier.

Played a guy who was in the last 16 of the English Amateurs today and lost 6-0. I was totally out of any rhythm as it all seemed foreign but line up was fine afterwards so need it to be natuaral now.

It was as bad as it seemed as he had a 55 in the first to finish the frame, lost in a respotted black in the 2nd, he fluked a crucial ball in frames 3, 4 and 5 to then clear and win the frame and lost on the pink in the 6th; someone up there certainly loved him today!

Thanks for the video as I think I'll go with the cue under my right eye with a squarer stance as it certainly felt stronger, just need to get the timing right.

[OmaMiesta]

Ive been getting some coaching from Cliff and he taught me something very interesting that seems to contradict most textbook fundamentals. It makes sense if you think about the logic behind it though. Because I'm left eye dominant and left handed, my left foot has always been on the line of aim and my right leg bent, textbook stuff. But Cliff actually told me to try standing slightly to the right of the line of aim with my left leg. So what this does is because I'm left eyed dominant and I'm now standing a bit to the right, it gets my left eye directly over the line of aim rather than standing on the line of aim and moving my cue to the left I'm now shifting my whole body to the right and getting my left sighting eye over the line of aim.

[Shockerz]

Ive been getting some coaching from Cliff and he taught me something very interesting that seems to contradict most textbook fundamentals. It makes sense if you think about the logic behind it though. Because I'm left eye dominant and left handed, my left foot has always been on the line of aim and my right leg bent, textbook stuff. But Cliff actually told me to try standing slightly to the right of the line of aim with my left leg. So what this does is because I'm left eyed dominant and I'm now standing a bit to the right, it gets my left eye directly over the line of aim rather than standing on the line of aim and moving my cue to the left I'm now shifting my whole body to the right and getting my left sighting eye over the line of aim.

Yeah I see where you're coming from but with the left foot square with the right my right foot, hand, shoulder, dominant eye is all on the aim line.
It seems to be working for me although early days.

[OmaMiesta]

Yeah I see where you're coming from but with the left foot square with the right my right foot, hand, shoulder, dominant eye is all on the aim line.
It seems to be working for me although early days.

Yea w.e works for you I guess, Im still experimenting myself

[itsnoteasy]

After watching your video I hit what felt like a few hundred balls on Sunday morning with the cue under my chin, and inch to the right and right under my right eye. I potted long Blues from 2 ft away into the black pocket and from 4 ft away into the same pocket with the cue in all three positions (I also did some straight into the middle pocket and cue'd along the bulk line and up and down the spots and learned
The table
When cueing along the bulk line - The table bulk line has a belly in it which pushed the ball against the nap from both sides so not incorrect cueing (so that ones out).
Down the spots - When I look down from the brown spot to the black spot the spots weren't level!
Make sure your tables spot on before you start changing your set up!

Long blues / reds from Blue spot to end pocket, white 2 ft and 4 ft from middle spot

Chin - Average between 2 and 3 out of 5.
1 inch from chin - Average of 3.
Directly under right eye (dominant and stronger eye /Preferred) - Average between 4 and 5 out of 5 each time when directly under right eye.
I also noticed that by bringing my left foot round to square my elbow straightened up and pushed the cue through easier.

Played a guy who was in the last 16 of the English Amateurs today and lost 6-0. I was totally out of any rhythm as it all seemed foreign but line up was fine afterwards so need it to be natuaral now.

It was as bad as it seemed as he had a 55 in the first to finish the frame, lost in a respotted black in the 2nd, he fluked a crucial ball in frames 3, 4 and 5 to then clear and win the frame and lost on the pink in the 6th; someone up there certainly loved him today!

Thanks for the video as I think I'll go with the cue under my right eye with a squarer stance as it certainly felt stronger, just need to get the timing right.

Shockers you must be a very decent player already, sometimes oponents carry the luck over a whole session and it doesn't even itself out.
One thing in your post though, cueing up and down the spots ,it doesn't matter how off the spots are you are trying to return the cueball to your tip at a decent pace, not just trickling it up and down, if you play from the brown spot it should come back over the brown spot so the others don't matter really. Having a level table when sending it up and down four times is a must though, my white wanders all over the place on the last leg on our tables.

[Shockerz]

Shockers you must be a very decent player already, sometimes oponents carry the luck over a whole session and it doesn't even itself out.
One thing in your post though, cueing up and down the spots ,it doesn't matter how off the spots are you are trying to return the cueball to your tip at a decent pace, not just trickling it up and down, if you play from the brown spot it should come back over the brown spot so the others don't matter really. Having a level table when sending it up and down four times is a must though, my white wanders all over the place on the last leg on our tables.

I probably didn't explain it well in my post, I was trying to tell people to be careful when accepting that a table is level and measuring your cue action against it, not always the case.
What I did in the early practice was to hit the ball along the bulk line thinking I was hitting it wrong. What was happening was I was hitting it wrong and the table was also wrong but I didn't know by how much. I should have hit it from the other side as well to ensure I had level table and now understand that slate can have bellies as the installer told me!

I've had my moments since taking the game up again (playing well) but I seem to have struggled in my long game which is just amplifying floors in my delivery and stifling any progress.

As for luck you just have to get on with it. They say that if a person is playing well they tend to get all of it but if you are consistently ahead or around level on scores and it keeps happening it's a real test of patience. We play best of 11 but by the 4th I was done as this happens often.

Players who strike the ball harder obviously get more flukes as the ball travels further but I did and analysis once and from memory I had a couple to every 30 odd against me, now that's seriously frustrating and does cost matches you didn't deserve to lose!

[itsnoteasy]

That's very high odds against , I can't honestly say what my ratio is ,it must be even I guess because I have never felt hard done by, some days up some down but one thing I have noticed is I get all my luck when playing poorly,all the little run of the balls, poor shots but leave it safe etc, always when I am struggling, maybe I just notice it more .I do agree that people who bang the ball get more flukes, as it will travel further it makes sense it has more chance to find a pocket eventually, I play a lad like that but luckily he misses a lot lol.

[Shockerz]

That's very high odds against , I can't honestly say what my ratio is ,it must be even I guess because I have never felt hard done by, some days up some down but one thing I have noticed is I get all my luck when playing poorly,all the little run of the balls, poor shots but leave it safe etc, always when I am struggling, maybe I just notice it more .I do agree that people who bang the ball get more flukes, as it will travel further it makes sense it has more chance to find a pocket eventually, I play a lad like that but luckily he misses a lot lol.

I must admit that I'll never work it out again and hopefully that's not my average but I know it's a factor. I did try a phase of hitting the ball harder and my flukes did increase and also my luck if I'm honest but that's not the way I want to play; I'd rather get better because I'm good enough and if not then that's life.

It's funny though as I've known another guy since I was 18 (now in 50's) who just continually gets the roll on crucial balls (he plays in our team) but when it happens in league games it's a little embarrassing.

The guys who I know who generally get more roll just accept it, difficult if you at the other end though.

Am I bothered? , you bet I am.

[Shockerz]

This was an interesting one for me tonight, I took 3 cues with me to the club tonight of various lengths.

I hit straight blues into the end pocket.

I hit half a dozen shots to the left with a maple cue (none potted), hit half a dozen to the right with an ash cue, none potted.

Then hit 13 on the trot into the pocket with my own ash cue.

All shots under my dominant eye, no variations in stance etc.

What do you think think the reasons might be?

[vmax4steve]

I did an interesting experiment in my practise session on sunday, I stood behind the shot as per normal, both eyes open when finding the contact point on the object ball and placing my feet, but I then shut my submissive eye (the right) when getting down and addressing the cue ball. Cue was right under my left eye as usual, cue on the line of aim and addressed at the centre of the cue ball, I kept my right eye closed on delivery of the cue and evey single pot was missed to the right of the pocket.

I did it again but this time opened my right eye once the cue was addressed to the cue ball, didn't miss a single straight long blue from the baulk line, 10/10, hit 8/10 from the green spot, jawed the other two, hit 7/10 from the brown spot, jawed the other three.

Bloody good for me and I was quite excited, but tried it in game play and couldn't get it going at all.

Why ? Was something else going on that I was unaware of due to my peace of mind within the experiment ?

Damn this game.