Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[Shockerz]

Guess your memory is working well. I never see the Navy time as a waste since I got a couple of free degrees out of it and was on full pay at the same time. Also traveled to over 30 countries too. Ever try to play in Bermuda? The slowest table I have ever seen in my life.

Sounds like you have a lot of life experience Terry, lucky man; and a few 147's to boot, well done.

Played pool in Barbados once, virtually no cloth so not the same as a wet cloth in Bermuda!

[Terry Davidson]

anyone whos made x3 147s one being against a top pro like bob chaperon, whilst only taking up the game properly in there 40s. never mind winning comps in the uk beating class players no doubt, is a remarkable player.
just think what could have been if you hadnt joined the navy at 17 and wasted 23yes on a boat., we can all see you like a scarp so, trophys were waiting.

Guess your memory is working well. I never see the Navy time as a waste since I got a couple of free degrees out of it and was on full pay at the same time. Also traveled to over 30 countries too. Ever try to play in Bermuda? The slowest table I have ever seen in my life.

[Terry Davidson]

anyone whos made x3 147s one being against a top pro like bob chaperon, whilst only taking up the game properly in there 40s. never mind winning comps in the uk beating class players no doubt, is a remarkable player.
just think what could have been if you hadnt joined the navy at 17 and wasted 23yes on a boat., we can all see you like a scarp so, trophys were waiting.

To be fair it was on my own match table at the Top Spot in Glenfield (near Leicester) and it was just practice where we decided to go for everything, have 10 frames and then go to the wholesaler to get some Labatt's Blue which Bob liked. I like to think I tuned him up in those 2 weeks for the first ranking tourney he won but probably not. Willy used to call me up for practice if he couldn't get Cliff although again that was always potting practice.

[j6uk]

I took this as sarcasm - 'nowhere near your level in terms of natural ability and achievements' as you are probably twice the player I ever was.

anyone whos made x3 147s one being against a top pro like bob chaperon, whilst only taking up the game properly in there 40s. never mind winning comps in the uk beating class players no doubt, is a remarkable player.
just think what could have been if you hadnt joined the navy at 17 and wasted 23yes on a boat., we can all see you like a scarp so, trophys were waiting.

[Terry Davidson]

don't have to be a Mod to do a survey, any member can (just don't ask me how )

Thanks Dean, but I'm happy with my conclusions regarding SIT and CIT. CIT exists on an angled pot and you can increase it by shooting harder. SIT does exist also but not enough to effect the path of the OB or changing the contact point on the OB from BOB to some spot on the OB that's up to 15* removed from BOB. Now that would be magic I think, saying the CB spin causes the 2 balls to stick together like a 'mini-kick' as said by Dr. Dave.

[Terry Davidson]

so theres no such thing as helping side then? its actually called swerve, and all players/im dong is swerving onto bob? and holding the cb is some odd swerve reaction?

When you are attempting to hold the cueball you are trying to hit the OB thicker so there's less energy left in the CB. That is the opposite of 'helping side' so I guess could be called 'unhelping side'.

When a player uses helping side he does curl the CB onto BOB but at a steeper angle so there's more energy remaining in the cueball since he makes the angle a little steeper. This is usually referred as running side if a cushion is involved.

But let me ask you a question...you have a fine cut red near the cushion and you're on a 147 so rather than going up for pink of blue you decide to use check side to hold the CB for the black and you know you have to hit it a bit harder to get the CB off the cushion. I've missed these simple shots quite a few times and I'm sure you and others have because check side or 'inside stuff or English' as the pool players call it is a tricky little shot especially to a partially closed pocket on a tighter table. No problem on a pool table though.

A lot of players use helping side all the time on any angled pot as they are comfortable with it and have more confidence, Willie Thorne for example. vmax would be an example of an amateur player. You don't see Ronnie, Hendry, Murphy, Davis using helping side though unless there's a cushion involved in their position.

[DeanH]

Straight on pot :biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new:
Get the mods to put a poll up to see what members think on this.
I reckon you'll only get a couple of votes if I'm honest

don't have to be a Mod to do a survey, any member can (just don't ask me how )

[Terry Davidson]

where was i sarcy?

I took this as sarcasm - 'nowhere near your level in terms of natural ability and achievements' as you are probably twice the player I ever was.

[j6uk]

j6:

Did you intentionally miss the first pot? There was no audio on the video but it looked like you were trying to explain something. Every pot in your video looked to me like you were hitting BOB or close to it. By the way sarcasm gets you nowhere. I use these shots when they come up, especially around the black so you can believe it's SIT throwing the ball in and still make all the shots and I can believe it's CB curve to BOB and still make all the shots. I'm a skeptic at heart and learned all this old school. In my experience (Occamh's Razor) the most simple solution is likely the correct one and the ONLY way 15* of change from the 1808 contact can be made is with the 2 balls clinging together longer than normal but here we're talking microseconds and I find it hard to believe CB spin causes the balls to cling together longer.

But you have it your way and I'll have it my way. This argument seems to have been going on since 1835 and it still hasn't been solved to everyone's satisfaction. Using your term, straightening the OB is not challenge at all.

where was i sarcy?

[travisbickle]

The original video looked like a straight-in pot and I'm not going searching for it because my time is valuable to me as I ain't got much left. The original Wilson shot was virtually straight in and your video said 'Wilson Pot' but I guess it's your take on the Wilson Pot as the pink was more into the shot on his pot.

Straight on pot :biggrin-new::biggrin-new::biggrin-new:
Get the mods to put a poll up to see what members think on this.
I reckon you'll only get a couple of votes if I'm honest

[j6uk]

Here's a screen shot of your first example j6, again using Nero Platinum 2017 video editing tool. The shot is played a bit fast, and the cue ball is going across the line, to get an exact contact point shot using frame by frame. This is the next frame after contact, the frame before is before contact, so actual contact is made between frames, but it looks to me like the red isn't hit too thick allowing the side on the cue ball to throw the red in, the contact was BOB.
One shot we couldn't see anything as you were in the way, and the one where you held for the black didn't need any side just a very soft screw to hold where in fact you held it, yes you could have used side and I'm not saying you didn't, but to me it wasn't neccessary.

Maybe you need a better tip mate, one of those Long BA tips would have bitten into the cue ball with centre ball soft screw to hold that shot easily, played a few myself this afternoon.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18892[/ATTACH]

so theres no such thing as helping side then? its actually called swerve, and all players/im dong is swerving onto bob? and holding the cb is some odd swerve reaction?

[Terry Davidson]

Look at the original video, it's been up enough times. Clearly 3/4 ball pot

The original video looked like a straight-in pot and I'm not going searching for it because my time is valuable to me as I ain't got much left. The original Wilson shot was virtually straight in and your video said 'Wilson Pot' but I guess it's your take on the Wilson Pot as the pink was more into the shot on his pot.

[Terry Davidson]

Here's a screen shot of your first example j6, again using Nero Platinum 2017 video editing tool. The shot is played a bit fast, and the cue ball is going across the line, to get an exact contact point shot using frame by frame. This is the next frame after contact, the frame before is before contact, so actual contact is made between frames, but it looks to me like the red isn't hit too thick allowing the side on the cue ball to throw the red in, the contact was BOB.
One shot we couldn't see anything as you were in the way, and the one where you held for the black didn't need any side just a very soft screw to hold where in fact you held it, yes you could have used side and I'm not saying you didn't, but to me it wasn't neccessary.

Maybe you need a better tip mate, one of those Long BA tips would have bitten into the cue ball with centre ball soft screw to hold that shot easily, played a few myself this afternoon.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]18892[/ATTACH]

j6:

Did you intentionally miss the first pot? There was no audio on the video but it looked like you were trying to explain something. Every pot in your video looked to me like you were hitting BOB or close to it. By the way sarcasm gets you nowhere. I use these shots when they come up, especially around the black so you can believe it's SIT throwing the ball in and still make all the shots and I can believe it's CB curve to BOB and still make all the shots. I'm a skeptic at heart and learned all this old school. In my experience (Occamh's Razor) the most simple solution is likely the correct one and the ONLY way 15* of change from the 1808 contact can be made is with the 2 balls clinging together longer than normal but here we're talking microseconds and I find it hard to believe CB spin causes the balls to cling together longer.

But you have it your way and I'll have it my way. This argument seems to have been going on since 1835 and it still hasn't been solved to everyone's satisfaction. Using your term, straightening the OB is not challenge at all.

[travisbickle]

Travis:

What I noted in your video was initially the CB was pushed a little bit to the LEFT and because of the RH side started to curve before it got to the pink as it's moving towards the RH line. From then on the CB curls a bit more. There's no pocket visible so I don't know if it was a 3/4-ball or 7/8-ball however I will grant you the OB left towards and under the LH line. As the CB was coming on a slight curve to the right from before the pink ball it's very hard to tell whether it's SIT or curving the CB into the correct potting angle.

I keep saying, we would need the camera behind the pocket and showing pocket, OB, pink ball and CB along with the last 6" of the cue. No one is going to prove this one way or another and I still haven't seen anything that convinces or shows me exactly what's happening. You'll have to admit the CB is initially pushed off and then starts returning before the pink ball if you watch closely. As far as I can tell without seeing the pocket the CB reached Bob.

Look at the original video, it's been up enough times. Clearly 3/4 ball pot

[Terry Davidson]

Travis:

What I noted in your video was initially the CB was pushed a little bit to the LEFT and because of the RH side started to curve before it got to the pink as it's moving towards the RH line. From then on the CB curls a bit more. There's no pocket visible so I don't know if it was a 3/4-ball or 7/8-ball however I will grant you the OB left towards and under the LH line. As the CB was coming on a slight curve to the right from before the pink ball it's very hard to tell whether it's SIT or curving the CB into the correct potting angle.

I keep saying, we would need the camera behind the pocket and showing pocket, OB, pink ball and CB along with the last 6" of the cue. No one is going to prove this one way or another and I still haven't seen anything that convinces or shows me exactly what's happening. You'll have to admit the CB is initially pushed off and then starts returning before the pink ball if you watch closely. As far as I can tell without seeing the pocket the CB reached Bob.