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2 Free Ball Questions

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  • 2 Free Ball Questions

    1. If there is only the pink & black left on the table & the pink is over the pocket & your opponent completely misses the pink and gives a foul 6 leaving the pink over the pocket & snookering behind the black (giving a free ball), could you nominate the black as the free ball & hit the black onto the pink & pot the pink to gain 6 points?

    2. Also what happens if you pot both the pink & black in the same shot (I.E. pink over the pocket, hit black onto pink, the pink goes in & the black also follows the pink in)

  • #2
    1 - yes. and you can also just roll the CB behind the black (free ball) and snooker your opponent. Note: You're only allowd to do this with pink an black left on the table.

    2- No , you can'nt do that. that would be considerd as a foul . ( you can only pot multi-free balls when thr are reds on the table and you nominate a colour as red ). that would be potting a clour nominated as free ball + another red which gives you 2 points ).

    Unles I'm wrong of crs !!
    Last edited by Ramon; 22nd November 2016, 05:59 AM.

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    • #3
      Edit: when I said (Considered as a foul), at point 2 ??
      I meant you do'nt get extra points for potting 2 balls at the same stroke !!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
        1. If there is only the pink & black left on the table & the pink is over the pocket & your opponent completely misses the pink and gives a foul 6 leaving the pink over the pocket & snookering behind the black (giving a free ball), could you nominate the black as the free ball & hit the black onto the pink & pot the pink to gain 6 points?
        Yes you can nominate the Black as your free ball, so for that stroke the Black is regarded as a Pink, so you can hit the Black to pot the Pink, 6 points.

        Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
        2. Also what happens if you pot both the pink & black in the same shot (I.E. pink over the pocket, hit black onto pink, the pink goes in & the black also follows the pink in)
        So continuing from Point 1, if the nominated Free Ball (Black) also enters the pocket as well as the Ball On (Pink) in the same stroke, no foul and score of 6 points (not 12 ).
        The Pink remains in the pocket, the Black is spotted and the turn continues, Black is now the ball on.

        Ramon - as the nominated free ball is considered the same as the ball on for that stroke you can pot one or both of them in the same stroke; for colours only one score, for Reds if you pot two balls (one being the nominated free ball) you do get 2 points, etc.

        The Nominated Free Ball MUST be the ball first contacted by the Cue Ball.

        Of course, in a non-free ball situation the potting two balls in one stroke - other than two reds - is a foul, penalty of four or higher value.
        Last edited by DeanH; 22nd November 2016, 09:03 AM.
        Up the TSF!

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        • #5
          The original two questions have been well answered by Dean, but I will chime in here with a personal observation related to this type of situation in an effort to help clear up the common confusion among many players.

          Most players I have met seem to understand well that in a Free Ball situation in which the ball on is Red, it is perfectly fine for both the nominated Free Ball and also one or more Reds to be potted and scored (as long as the nominated Free Ball is the first ball contacted).

          However, in a Free Ball situation in which the ball on is a colour during the final sequence, most players I have met do not know the correct ruling if the both the Free Ball and the "natural" ball are potted on the same stroke. Most players seem to think that this would either be a foul stroke (as did Ramon above) or that it would count as a double score, i.e., four points scored for instance if Yellow was the ball on and both Free Ball and Yellow are potted. As Dean pointed out above, neither of these suppositions is correct, but the logic of this Rule is far from obvious. If one can get a double score (or more) from potting a Free Ball AND one or more Reds in the same stroke, then why can't one get a double score from potting a Free Ball and Yellow (for example) in the same stroke?

          While that logic may seem inconsistent, it will become clear if you understand the underlying principle. At the start of a frame, there are a total of fifteen Reds on the table so my first hypothetical question is: When Red is the ball on, what is the maximum score possible for a standard (non-Free Ball) stroke? It has never happened and of course never will, but the answer is FIFTEEN....all fifteen Red balls fall into a pocket within the course of a single stroke, so the score is fifteen times the value of the Red. If it were possible, this would be a perfectly legal stroke assuming nothing else occurred to make it a foul stroke. Now, apply the same hypothetical question when a colour is the ball on in any standard stroke. The maximum possible score in that one stroke is of course the value of that colour; it is not possible to score multiple colours in a single stroke.

          The above paragraph is the underlying principle of the logic of Free Ball scoring. If the Free Ball is in place of Reds, it is possible to have multiple scoring because with standard Reds it is possible to have multiple scoring. If the Free Ball is in place of a colour, then it is NOT possible to have multiple scoring for the same reason. (That explains the logic of "scoring" Free Ball strokes with multiple pots.) Thus it follows that if the Free Ball is in place of Reds, it is a fair stroke for the Free Ball and one or more "natural" balls to fall into a pocket. So it also follows that if the Free Ball is in place of a colour, it is a fair stroke for the Free Ball and the "natural" ball to fall into a pocket. (That explains the logic of the "legality" of Free Ball strokes with multiple pots.)

          And lastly, when a frame has reached the point of the final colour sequence, the very simple rule to remember is that each of the colours can and must be legally potted and scored one time and one time ONLY. As nearly infinite situations are possible on a snooker table, there is actually only three possible outcomes to any individual stroke: 1) foul stroke - new striker steps to the table...in final colour rotation, if the ball on was put in the pocket or off the table in the course of a foul stroke, then it must be spotted because it must be legally potted before the rotation sequence can continue to the next colour. 2) fair stroke - no pot, new striker playing at the same ball on as previous stroke, or 3) pot - the proper colour is legally potted so the next colour in sequence is the ball on for the next stroke. That is it, nothing else is possible.

          So, putting all of that together, when both the "natural" and Free Ball are potted on an otherwise legal stroke during final colour sequence, it logically follows that only a single score is counted at the value of the natural ball, the natural ball now remains in the pocket because it has been legally potted, the nominated Free Ball is spotted, and the ball on is now the next colour in the sequence, i.e., the lowest value ball now remaining on the table (which may or may not be the aforementioned, just spotted Free Ball from the previous stroke).

          Whew! That is a long winded explanation, but if you understand the relatively simple underlying principle, you will no longer be confused by this rule in the future.

          BONUS QUESTION: So what do you suppose would be the ruling in the unlikely event of a Free Ball situation with all fifteen Reds on the table, a colour is nominated Free Ball, then, quite astoundingly, the Free Ball AND all fifteen Reds drop into pockets with no foul occurrence during the course of the stroke?

          Comment


          • #6
            all fifteen reds stay in the pocket, the colour comes back out and the next ball on is the Yellow

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            • #7
              You would score 16 points, the colour used as a free ball comes back on the table then you start with the yellow

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              • #8
                The ball on would be any one of the colours.
                http://www.snooker-coach.co.uk

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                • #9
                  Yes indeed , the free ball nominated colour would be as if it was a red.

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                  • #10
                    all reds and nominated free ball potted - 16 points scored, potted colour would be spotted, then any colour ball on and if potted then spotted, then colours in sequence
                    Up the TSF!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by snookerdad View Post
                      The ball on would be any one of the colours.
                      Ahh yes indeed

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DeanH View Post
                        all reds and nominated free ball potted - 16 points scored, potted colour would be spotted, then any colour ball on and if potted then spotted, then colours in sequence
                        Well done Dean! Although it is a logical inconsistency (just like one can only score one colour value on a single stroke because there is only one colour possible on a table at any given moment, so it follows that one should only be able to score fifteen points on a Red in a single stroke as there can only be fifteen possible Reds on the table), the Rules make no exception for this obviously very unlikely event. The Rules only state that the Free Ball is scored along with any other Reds that may have been potted, no numerical limit.

                        If that frame ever IS played, it would probably also be in the record books for the fastest game ever played as it may only take a minute or two if the colours remain open!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by DeanH View Post
                          Yes you can nominate the Black as your free ball, so for that stroke the Black is regarded as a Pink, so you can hit the Black to pot the Pink, 6 points.


                          So continuing from Point 1, if the nominated Free Ball (Black) also enters the pocket as well as the Ball On (Pink) in the same stroke, no foul and score of 6 points (not 12 ).
                          The Pink remains in the pocket, the Black is spotted and the turn continues, Black is now the ball on.

                          Ramon - as the nominated free ball is considered the same as the ball on for that stroke you can pot one or both of them in the same stroke; for colours only one score, for Reds if you pot two balls (one being the nominated free ball) you do get 2 points, etc.

                          The Nominated Free Ball MUST be the ball first contacted by the Cue Ball.

                          Of course, in a non-free ball situation the potting two balls in one stroke - other than two reds - is a foul, penalty of four or higher value.
                          yeah, that was actually the point i treid to make with my second post . it was wrong using the word ,,foul,,. My apologies.
                          btw, your explanation was much better than mine. as always !!
                          cheers,

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Is a player allowed to ask the referee a rules question prior to playing their shot?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by chae View Post
                              Is a player allowed to ask the referee a rules question prior to playing their shot?
                              No .

                              This is'nt a part of your question . Just for the record :

                              referee sees that a player is about to make a foul , should the referee warn him ?

                              No .

                              Except , once the player has ful ball contact and he does'nt hit the red twice .
                              In this case the Ref should warn the player . ( . missing the red for the third time is the same as losing the frame. ).
                              Last edited by Ramon; 24th November 2016, 05:24 AM.

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