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aiming problem please help me

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  • acesinc
    replied
    Fantastic advice, Terry! I will use this myself in the future.

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  • Terry Davidson
    replied
    mrafghan:

    You have backed yourself into a corner and have over-analysed your technique (as MANY do all the time),

    The solution is easy. Get a video camera and a tripod. Video yourself playing at least 10 long blues and have the camera cover from the top of your head when standing behind the shot and down to 6in in front of the cueball.

    You say you determine the correct line of aim when standing behind the shot but when you get down you are not on the line of aim you chose. There are 2 possible answers: 1. Either you ARE on the right line of aim and your perception when in the address position is wrong, or; 2. You have indeed moved off the correct line of aim when you dropped into the address position (most likely).

    Do the video and download 'Kinovea' (which is freeware) and watch yourself shooting those 10 long blues. Kinovea has a frame-by-frame option with which you can view yourself every 1/30th of a second. In the first screening watch your head and ensure it drops straight down. In the next screening watch and see if your tip appears to contact the cueball in the centre. On the 3rd screening watch and see if your cue is centered on the leather of the yellow pocket and STAYS THERE throughout the backswing and delivery. Ensure your hand is hitting the chest and watch for at least 4-5in of follow-through on the cue.

    This video should eliminate reason #2 above and at the very least it should show you that you are NOT coming straight down into the address position. This is the ONLY way you can lose the line-of-aim if you picked it out correctly when standing behind the shot.

    I believe you are getting the best advice available from both myself and others however we can only do so much unless we see a video of you playing some long blues posted on here or on youtube with a link. This would be the best way to cure your problem, whatever it might be.

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  • vmax4steve
    replied
    Originally posted by mrafghan View Post
    my problem is i find the line of aim perfect while standing, but as soon as i get down i am offline, i have to get up several times but sometimes even after getting up i still am offline . i get tired of doing this on 90% of shots. high percentage to keep getting up .
    most of the time i just get tired of standing up and just hit the shot, maybe i put unconciously or conciously side or even move my body to get online although i know this is the wrong way.

    ofcourse if someone is offline , ones should get up and and try again. but i cannot do this. as soon as i get down i lose the line somehow.
    although i step in correct, head straight down, nose pointing to the object , solid stance, tried putting the cue online then build my body around it.
    ( tried jimmy white's method , cue already on the bridge hand while getting down)
    i tried lots of things, nothing seem to work

    i would really appreciate if anyone can help me
    tnx
    It's basic hand/eye co-ordination, like catching a ball, and if you can't do it then find another game rather than wear yourself out and trying our patience.
    No one goes to a cricket coach and has to ask which eye should I be looking at the ball with as it flies towards me because those people are hopeless at cricket and all other ball games.
    All you need to do really is look at the right thing at the right time and unless you're Stevie Wonder you should be able to do it as it's a natural process that doesn't require concious thought, you simply look and see.

    The number of people who come on this forum looking to be guided into doing something well that they have no grasp of is very very hard to put into the written word, and even when you do it isn't always interpreted properly and even if it is you can't be there to see they are actually doing it rather than looking elswhere rather than the suggested target/s.

    Basic cueing problems can be resolved with time and patience but someone with no real hand/eye ability is a no hoper.

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  • Byrom
    replied
    My advice is simple - forget this dominant eye crap - your eyes will naturally tell you what is right I think.

    find the line of the shot properly when you are standing up (Line through the ball to back of pocket and just try sending the white in such a way it sends it down the line basically - I don't know how I do this I just stand - Away - from the table. pick out the line I need to make the pot - The angle or plain ball just pops up and I pick out where I am aiming on the white what position I need and how hard I need to hit it.

    I visualise potting it before I get down - I do not just blindly guess although I have to estimate - I usually know its going in or close unless I totally miss read it or take my eye off it on the way in - important to keep your eye on this line or angle as you step into the shot and swoop down. Try not be hesitant or getting down to slow or too quick before you have visualised the line - don't stand too close to table so that you cant find the line or get down properly - attack the shots smoothly don't just meander down into a shot.

    Hard to make someone understand this - people try too hard and often over complicate snooker - trying to be perfect with their aiming or forever changing things as they play and I can usually tell if someone can play right away not only how they cue but their body language around the table for example if they stand too close to the table on certain shots or they don't stand away or behind the shot - maybe they don't check position to next shot for the one after or check to see if a colour goes in a certain pocket or basically how they plan things out - there are many single ball potting trust to luck types in club land - many approach from the side or get down too slow and start aiming/feathering too much when down.

    Don't get me wrong many players have learned to play to a very good standard doing other things but I think its altogether better to get into the habit of visualising the shot and stepping into it the way I describe or something like it. Attack the shots don't p around.

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  • acesinc
    replied
    Originally posted by mrafghan View Post
    Thank you whoever is reading this, and willing to help another snooker player
    i really appreciate your help


    i have been having this aiming problem for more than 1 year. went to see my coach and told him that when i lineup i do it perfect but as soon as i get down i am offline 60% of the time ( i have to put side or move my bridge hand to get online ) but i am not doing that. i get up like more than 3 times 70% of the time and i still am offline.

    my coach asked me to play few shots, and said : you are lining up with your right eye and when you are down on the shot your cue is under your left eye ( just a little bit ).
    SOLUTION: he said keep looking at the object ball while you are going down , however it did not solve my problem. i asked him if i have to move my cue under my right eye. i moved the cue under my right eye but i also titled my head unintentionally . then the coach said: no point putting your cue under your right eye which is your dominant eye, because you are also tilting your head which means when you tilt your head the cue aligns under your left eye even though you think its under your right eye

    however, my coach said dont worry about moving your cue under your dominant eye

    its been 2 months since i last saw my coach, but i still have aiming problem, i m 90% sure it has something to do with my aiming ( i recorded my self and i deliver the cue straight, up down straight ) even with a dead straight pot i have this problem ( but less than angle shots ) but as soon as angles comes to play i have to get up few times to get online . sometimes even after 3 times i dont get online, or if does. my body or shoulder or bridge hand unintentionally moves to find the correct path to the pocket



    anyone can help me here ?
    thank you
    Mrafghan, I return to your original post here to point out what I have bolded. If you have an issue when you have a dead straight pot, then I am sorry, you do NOT have an aiming problem. I agree with Terry that the problem is most likely in the delivery of the cue. But I believe that for some reason, it is easier for us to believe that our bodies and muscles are doing things correctly so that we believe it must be our eyes which deceive us.

    At this point then, I think you should go no further than simple straight or very near straight pots--Blue off spot directly into a middle pocket. You must go through the entire routine EVERY SINGLE TIME. Stand behind the line to aim, step your lead foot into position, move body down to table maintaining eyes on line of aim, several feathers, and stroke. Put a new ball on the spot (have a whole pile of them ready at the middle of the table) and do it again, going through the whole routine. Every shot should be simple. Each shot should take no more than five to ten seconds. If you don't have a friend who can clear the balls for you, then you will need to empty the middle pocket every 7 or 8 shots. It sounds like you have a very bad lack of confidence because you keep asking the same question over and over again. First things first, get your confidence back and the way to do that is to make a LOT of pots in a row.

    Get to the table and make 100 simple shots in a row, it really should not take more than about 15 minutes. Then begin to build your game again with a fresh, confident mindset.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrafghan
    replied
    Originally posted by acesinc View Post
    I agree with this. IF someone has a DOMINANT eye, it is not necessarily best for that eye to be directly over the cue. I agree with the use of the term "preferred eye" instead. In my case, this was another variable that I experimented with over quite a long period. Previously, I had always tried to emulate Steve Davis and the cue was center of my chin, middle of the eyes. First, I will say that as I have gotten older, eyes have gone bad so I normally wear bi-focal glasses. For snooker, I wear contact lenses balanced well but stronger prescription in my right eye (my left eye is naturally stronger). When I do "self tests" of which is the dominant eye, I get varying results, just don't know, but I thought it was left. So I asked the optometrist to tell me which is the dominant eye and she did a test and said "right". I said, "That can't be. Let's try again." We did a different test and she said, "right". On my table experimenting, if I put the cue under my right eye, my potting is horrible. Cue centered, potting is okay, but just doesn't feel correct. My left eye is definitely preferred eye...I don't think cue is directly under left eye, just shied toward the left eye side of my face.

    What Terry says is spot on that you must do it the same ALL THE TIME, and that even includes when using the rest which of course seems different but you need to still keep the relationship between eyes and line of aim. Either pick a method and get used to it, or experiment with everything, decide what seems most comfortable and then CONSCIOUSLY line up on the cue the same way every time. I think that often people simply don't pay attention so they will not even realize any relation at all between their eyes/face and the line of aim. It must be consistent.

    To the OP I would say that most of your actual "aiming" comes when you are standing up behind the line. The big trick is to move from standing behind the line down into the cueing position while MAINTAINING the relationship between your eyes/face to the line of aim. If you lose that line, you won't get it back when you are down, you must get back up, see it again, then move back down carefully holding the relationship. When I do it correctly, I am sure I look like one of those African ladies perfectly balancing the big jug of water on top of their heads....my face perfectly steady looking down the line of aim, arms and legs flailing about, moving into their required positions, climbing over cushions or whatever, but my head moves forward and down in a straight line and perfectly level.
    my problem is i find the line of aim perfect while standing, but as soon as i get down i am offline, i have to get up several times but sometimes even after getting up i still am offline . i get tired of doing this on 90% of shots. high percentage to keep getting up .
    most of the time i just get tired of standing up and just hit the shot, maybe i put unconciously or conciously side or even move my body to get online although i know this is the wrong way.

    ofcourse if someone is offline , ones should get up and and try again. but i cannot do this. as soon as i get down i lose the line somehow.
    although i step in correct, head straight down, nose pointing to the object , solid stance, tried putting the cue online then build my body around it.
    ( tried jimmy white's method , cue already on the bridge hand while getting down)
    i tried lots of things, nothing seem to work

    i would really appreciate if anyone can help me
    tnx

    Leave a comment:


  • mrafghan
    replied
    Originally posted by vmax4steve View Post
    If it helps or not please say so.
    unfortunately didnt see and changes after practicing more than 15 hours already

    Leave a comment:


  • mrafghan
    replied
    Originally posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    It is not a valid argument at all and came from Joe Davis cueing under his left eye but that was because he was almost blind in his right eye. It has since become one of the reasons a player is missing pots when in reality the missed pots are just about 100% due to bad cueing.

    We will only sight with one eye when we are down on the shot and that should be called the 'preferred' eye as it is not necessarily the player's 'dominant' eye. It's very easy to check which eye is doing the sighting. Cue up on the baulkline without a cueball and point your cue at the edge of the leather on the black pocket. Now, while staying down in the address position close one eye at a time and check to see if the cue looks to be pointed at the edge of the leather. Unless a person is evenly sighted and can change his sighting eye the cue will appear off to the side from one of the eyes.

    In the final analysis...it just doesn't matter as long as the player uses one set-up and sticks with it. This also keeps the player closer to his own natural style rather than ettempting to change things based on a shakey theory.
    you are right, however in my case i am confused what the real problem is. today i tried what you told me 2 days ago. by the way i found that i aim via my right eye and when im in address position, i closed my eyes and i think i am still sighting with my right eye, however i dont know why i am still struggling to sight the line of the aim. i get up more than 3 times on every single shot, and again when im back down sometimes i am satisfied and online and sometimes i just get tired of getting up and just put side or move my bridge hand conciously and unconciously to get online and pot the ball.
    i alwys had this issue but recently i decided its time to fix this. i never knew about dominant eye etc, but i am not sure whats causing this problem for me.

    you are correct, when people miss shot it could be cuing aswell . but thats missing. in my case , i have a different problem, i dont complain about missing, i complain caz i dont and i cant sight the line of aim when in address position

    i tried turning my head to the right ( no changes )
    i tried to point my nose @ object ball ( no changes )
    i tried to put the cue online like jimmy white does ( put his cue on bridge hand while getting down )
    put the cue first and build my body around it ( no changes )
    turned heaps
    put the cue under right eye, under left eye
    changed stance ( no changes )

    am i alien?
    thank you

    Leave a comment:


  • acesinc
    replied
    Originally posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    It is not a valid argument at all and came from Joe Davis cueing under his left eye but that was because he was almost blind in his right eye. It has since become one of the reasons a player is missing pots when in reality the missed pots are just about 100% due to bad cueing.

    We will only sight with one eye when we are down on the shot and that should be called the 'preferred' eye as it is not necessarily the player's 'dominant' eye. It's very easy to check which eye is doing the sighting. Cue up on the baulkline without a cueball and point your cue at the edge of the leather on the black pocket. Now, while staying down in the address position close one eye at a time and check to see if the cue looks to be pointed at the edge of the leather. Unless a person is evenly sighted and can change his sighting eye the cue will appear off to the side from one of the eyes.

    In the final analysis...it just doesn't matter as long as the player uses one set-up and sticks with it. This also keeps the player closer to his own natural style rather than ettempting to change things based on a shakey theory.
    I agree with this. IF someone has a DOMINANT eye, it is not necessarily best for that eye to be directly over the cue. I agree with the use of the term "preferred eye" instead. In my case, this was another variable that I experimented with over quite a long period. Previously, I had always tried to emulate Steve Davis and the cue was center of my chin, middle of the eyes. First, I will say that as I have gotten older, eyes have gone bad so I normally wear bi-focal glasses. For snooker, I wear contact lenses balanced well but stronger prescription in my right eye (my left eye is naturally stronger). When I do "self tests" of which is the dominant eye, I get varying results, just don't know, but I thought it was left. So I asked the optometrist to tell me which is the dominant eye and she did a test and said "right". I said, "That can't be. Let's try again." We did a different test and she said, "right". On my table experimenting, if I put the cue under my right eye, my potting is horrible. Cue centered, potting is okay, but just doesn't feel correct. My left eye is definitely preferred eye...I don't think cue is directly under left eye, just shied toward the left eye side of my face.

    What Terry says is spot on that you must do it the same ALL THE TIME, and that even includes when using the rest which of course seems different but you need to still keep the relationship between eyes and line of aim. Either pick a method and get used to it, or experiment with everything, decide what seems most comfortable and then CONSCIOUSLY line up on the cue the same way every time. I think that often people simply don't pay attention so they will not even realize any relation at all between their eyes/face and the line of aim. It must be consistent.

    To the OP I would say that most of your actual "aiming" comes when you are standing up behind the line. The big trick is to move from standing behind the line down into the cueing position while MAINTAINING the relationship between your eyes/face to the line of aim. If you lose that line, you won't get it back when you are down, you must get back up, see it again, then move back down carefully holding the relationship. When I do it correctly, I am sure I look like one of those African ladies perfectly balancing the big jug of water on top of their heads....my face perfectly steady looking down the line of aim, arms and legs flailing about, moving into their required positions, climbing over cushions or whatever, but my head moves forward and down in a straight line and perfectly level.

    Leave a comment:


  • Terry Davidson
    replied
    Originally posted by tomwalker147 View Post
    I'm glad there are other people on the forum who can help with this dominant eye stuff. I literally do not get any of it in the slightest!
    It is not a valid argument at all and came from Joe Davis cueing under his left eye but that was because he was almost blind in his right eye. It has since become one of the reasons a player is missing pots when in reality the missed pots are just about 100% due to bad cueing.

    We will only sight with one eye when we are down on the shot and that should be called the 'preferred' eye as it is not necessarily the player's 'dominant' eye. It's very easy to check which eye is doing the sighting. Cue up on the baulkline without a cueball and point your cue at the edge of the leather on the black pocket. Now, while staying down in the address position close one eye at a time and check to see if the cue looks to be pointed at the edge of the leather. Unless a person is evenly sighted and can change his sighting eye the cue will appear off to the side from one of the eyes.

    In the final analysis...it just doesn't matter as long as the player uses one set-up and sticks with it. This also keeps the player closer to his own natural style rather than ettempting to change things based on a shakey theory.
    Last edited by Terry Davidson; 14 March 2017, 12:23 PM.

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  • tomwalker147
    replied
    I'm glad there are other people on the forum who can help with this dominant eye stuff. I literally do not get any of it in the slightest!

    Leave a comment:


  • vmax4steve
    replied
    Originally posted by mrafghan View Post
    tnx i will try this
    If it helps or not please say so.

    Leave a comment:


  • mrafghan
    replied
    Originally posted by vmax4steve View Post
    You might be addressing the cue ball in your peripheral vision with your submissive eye if you're looking at the object ball when getting down into your stance. Stand behind the shot and look from cue ball to contact point on the object ball to put the line of aim into your short term memory and then look only at the cue ball when placing your leading foot (right for a right hander and left for a left hander), once your leading foot is in place look at the object ball when placing your other foot and keep looking at the object ball as you start to get down into your stance, halfway down switch focus to the cue ball and address the tip of the cue to its centre as you get down the rest of the way, once all the way down look up at the object ball again and close one eye and then the other to determine which eye actually sights the cue along the line of aim through the centre of the cue ball.
    tnx i will try this

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  • mrafghan
    replied
    Originally posted by Terry Davidson View Post
    From what you are saying it appears you are aiming (when standing up) with your right eye (which makes no sense at all as both eyes are in play when standing behind the shot). Then you are dropping down into the address position while turning your head to bring your left eye more over the cue. It appears to me you are SIGHTING with your left eye when in the address position.

    My recommended cure for your situation is when standing behind the shot turn your head slightly to the right or else keep your nose pointed at the object ball. Then DROP YOUR HEAD STRAIGHT DOWN. This might mean you have to either lean a bit to the right or else swivel your hips to the left to bring the head behind the shot.

    Once you drop your head straight down and have your nose pointed slightly to the right you should be on the line of aim you determined when standing behind the shot (which is the most accurate by the way).

    Just bear in mind most shots are missed by not delivering the cue straight and most problems in the delivery originate with the backswing. The backswing should be slow, deliberate and absolutely straight. A great way to do this is keeping the cue against the chest and it should be about 2in to the right of the right nipple and just above it.
    thank you for reply

    yes i find the line of aim with both eyes open, however i quickly do test to see how am i looking at the line and the object ( its with my right eye )

    my coach took a photo of me while in address position, and he says my cue is alittle bit under my left eye, he said when you are putting down your cue its offline, and after few seconds it comes online. he asked me to move my right leg abit to the right side of line of aim before getting down

    however i tried this, and it feels so uncomfortable and i can clearly see that i am always offline. he said dont worry about dominant eye caz you are tilting your head anyway, which again bring the cue back under the left eye

    i dont know whether to see this coach again or not, i m struggling big time with my aiming
    i play up and down 30 mints a day , and 15 mints baulk line cuing, and i can see i deliver my cue pretty much straight and i have very accurate front and back pause with slow backswing and smooth acceleration

    pleaese do share some tips
    i will definately try what u just mentioned
    tnx

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  • mrafghan
    replied
    Originally posted by GasMonkey View Post
    When down with your cue under the left eye your cue to chest contact point will be closer to your sternum than if you line up with it under your right eye - assuming you're right handed. I got over moving to my dominant eye by making sure my contact point was on line along with my grip hand. It worked for me but make not work for you. If it does I'll be over the moon for you as it's a tough change to make. I used to cue smack under my chin and compensated for it subconsciously.
    i didnt not understand you

    cue is straight, no matter where you move top of the cue, the grip will still be in contact point with chest

    can you explain it abit clearly, maybe im abit confused

    tnx

    Leave a comment:

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