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  • Burroughes & Watts Unusual Table

    Has anyone ever seen a Burroughes & Watts snooker table like the one in these pictures below? There is a lot of carved detail all the way around the table which I've never seen on any other table that I've played on. Just interested to know if it is a rare table and if anyone else has seen one similar before?

    https://ibb.co/bzkWnw

    https://ibb.co/nkf8Zb

    https://ibb.co/hL58Zb

    https://ibb.co/mjZffG

    https://ibb.co/isZD0G

    https://ibb.co/hf70fG
    Last edited by dmorley85; 3rd December 2017, 07:38 PM.

  • #2
    Photobucket no longer supports third party sites, unless you pay an extortionate amount

    Try ImgBB or Tinypic which you can use to get the code to paste without registering

    B&W had many options of carved features, as well as some models as standard. Assuming you had the money
    Up the TSF!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by DeanH View Post
      Photobucket no longer supports third party sites, unless you pay an extortionate amount

      Try ImgBB or Tinypic which you can use to get the code to paste without registering

      B&W had many options of carved features, as well as some models as standard. Assuming you had the money
      Cheers Dean, I'll try ImgBB
      Last edited by dmorley85; 3rd December 2017, 07:41 PM.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by DeanH View Post
        Photobucket no longer supports third party sites, unless you pay an extortionate amount

        Try ImgBB or Tinypic which you can use to get the code to paste without registering

        B&W had many options of carved features, as well as some models as standard. Assuming you had the money
        I've uploaded the pictures again at the top of the post.

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        • #5
          looks like the table in seedfield bowling club.....

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by andy carson View Post
            looks like the table in seedfield bowling club.....
            Correct. But have you seen a table like this one before anywhere else?

            Comment


            • #7
              Burroughes & Watts Unusual Table

              very similar to a table at a social club I used to go to
              Steel vacuum cushion and very tight pockets
              But no chalk holders.
              Up the TSF!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dmorley85 View Post
                Correct. But have you seen a table like this one before anywhere else?
                thinking back, once and it was a complete wreck. was at a salesian school in gloucestershire if i remember rightly

                Comment


                • #9
                  The makers' plate is from 1936-39, (reference to the late King George V) but the table is earlier than that, so the two do not go together. Quite possibly some later work saw the original plate substituted. Although having said that, I'm not convinced that the cushions belong with the frame, and if so, the plate wouldn't matter. I'd have said the cushions were 1890s, as they are invisible pocket plates, but with very old looking rosettes. The frame looks to be a different colour in the photo (different wood?). It could be earlier, maybe by ten years or so. I'd like a closer look. Geoff Large might be able to recognise something familiar, but it looks like a mongrel to me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Burroughes & Watts Unusual Table

                    so probably they changed the plate to reflect the new "latest" cushions when they replaced they original ones?
                    Up the TSF!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by 100-uper View Post
                      The makers' plate is from 1936-39, (reference to the late King George V) but the table is earlier than that, so the two do not go together. Quite possibly some later work saw the original plate substituted. Although having said that, I'm not convinced that the cushions belong with the frame, and if so, the plate wouldn't matter. I'd have said the cushions were 1890s, as they are invisible pocket plates, but with very old looking rosettes. The frame looks to be a different colour in the photo (different wood?). It could be earlier, maybe by ten years or so. I'd like a closer look. Geoff Large might be able to recognise something familiar, but it looks like a mongrel to me.

                      knowing the club it will be a triggers mop table......

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yes that plate only mentions the cushions, not the table

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by 100-uper View Post
                          The makers' plate is from 1936-39, (reference to the late King George V) but the table is earlier than that, so the two do not go together. Quite possibly some later work saw the original plate substituted. Although having said that, I'm not convinced that the cushions belong with the frame, and if so, the plate wouldn't matter. I'd have said the cushions were 1890s, as they are invisible pocket plates, but with very old looking rosettes. The frame looks to be a different colour in the photo (different wood?). It could be earlier, maybe by ten years or so. I'd like a closer look. Geoff Large might be able to recognise something familiar, but it looks like a mongrel to me.
                          Correct Peter

                          looks like steel Burroughs and watts steel upgrade cushions added to a carved oak frame of another manufacturers table.

                          could be slates and cushions or just cushions added , as we know Burroughs and watts slotted their cushions to fit any slate bolt spacing around at the time , so they could be retro fitted to any make , I thinking this table frame points to a firm more like Orme & sons who where known for their preference of tables manufactured in oak rather than mahogany , the lack of Burroughs and watts trademark knee panel fixings also point to it not being Burroughs and watts frame .
                          I would say hybrid having had an upgrade to steel cushions .

                          but hey manufacturers did make a few oddities , but never seen a Burroughs and watts without those knee panels like a church window or oblong panel .
                          apart from early button ones never seen one with no leg bolt fixings that where not accessible from the front , it is obvious these are on the inside of the frame work .
                          having said that I have not seen an orme that has legs fixed like this too , but I have seen Riley dining tables with fixings on the inside .

                          if the frame is extra thick when the slates come off it points to George Wright , or just feel the thickness of framework of the side and end framework .
                          if over two inch thick getting on for three inch then George wright .
                          Last edited by Geoff Large; 5th December 2017, 06:38 PM.
                          [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Geoff. My first thought when I looked at the twisting engraving around the leg of this table was Orme, although nothing else fits with one of their designs that is obvious to me. I have also seen something similar from Ashcroft, although not close enough to say it displays any other common feature with their tables.

                            These "one-off" tables tended to be made for special occasions, such as exhibitions, and there were plenty of those from 1850 onwards. By the 1880s they were popping up all over the place. There were typically exhibitions for Brewers', Licensed Victuallers, Sports & Pastimes, Shoe and Leather, Printing & Kindred Trade, Music Trades, Furnishing Trades, not to mention local town exhibitions, with both local and international exhibitors, lasting anywhere from a couple of weeks to a few months. Believe it or not, all of the exhibitions I've mentioned attracted a few billiard table manufacturers who would have produced a special table to showcase all the latest features. These would usually be sold at the exhibition itself.

                            This one looks like it has hand-carved panels, and typically work like this would have been given to a contractor rather being than done in-house, then the panels were set into the frames. Nice to see, but not as rare to see something like this as might be imagined. Not having the original cushion rails rather spoils it for me, even if the B&W ones are better!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just had a look at my billiards simplified book at leg designs and nothing like this in the Burroughs and watts section of examples of tables and equipment , but they did do 4 tables with carved knee panels although I have never worked on one like these 4 examples .
                              if you have a billiards simplified book with Burroughs and watts designs in the rear the carved ones are examples nine ten eleven and twelve .

                              I have worked on many Orme carved oak tables though , and the mixed wood ebony and oak ones too which look very nice

                              link below , here is in my opinion one of the finest carved oak tables by Orme ever built

                              http://www.onlinegalleries.com/art-a...d-table/186973
                              Last edited by Geoff Large; 5th December 2017, 06:51 PM.
                              [/SIGPIC]http://www.gclbilliards.com

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