Ssb - trump's slump

[P.Smith]

It's complacency, simple as that. I'm sure he'll get over it as he has too much natural talent to waste.

[tommygunner1309]

I think Achamian has hit the nail on the head. I have noticed quite often that Judd has some upper body movement, particularly on longer shots requiring more power. Any coach will tell you that any upper body movement will cause a flaw in the cue action.
I remember Jack Nicklaus (wonderful golfer) relating a story, that when he was being coached as a youngster, he had problems keeping his head still on the swing. He said that his coach grabbed a lump of his hair and held it through the swing. Jack smiled, said that's why I'm a bit thin on top - cured my head movement though. Must try that with my next pupil - then get sued for assault
I don't know whether Judd has a coach or not. No worries here though - I doubt I could teach him anything.

[alabadi]

No worries, alabadi.

I like a bit of lively discussion.

There's no bad feeling. We all love snooker and, as far as I know, we're all friends here.

Cause we are pal

[Achamian]

I do agree with what you are saying Achamian but do we know that Judd hasn't a coach, surely most pros nowadays seek the help of coaches when their form dips.

i have seen Mark Selby come down to Sheffield seeking advice from a coach that i use myself.

its true that one cannot see errors themselves, and an observer can see mistakes more easily, i also agree that a coach doesn't have to be a top player too, and most coaches who have coached the best have not been top pros themselves, however they have good technical knowledge and can help a player iron out flaws in their game.

so it seems that we agree on most things Achamian, don't get me wrong i wasn't having a go at you at all, i was merely commenting in general about many players that i hear either in clubs or on forums who criticise pro players techniques yet they themselves are riddled with many technical flaws and have no answer to.

No worries, alabadi.

I like a bit of lively discussion.

There's no bad feeling. We all love snooker and, as far as I know, we're all friends here.

[alabadi]

I am not saying that Judd Trump's technique is bad.

But I will say that, just because someone is in the top 10 in the world, it doesn't mean that their technique is infallible. Sometimes small errors can creep in which the player himself is not aware of.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, both Stephen Hendry and Tiger Woods employed the services of 'technical coaches'. And, in their particular sports, they were the best players the world has ever seen.

I am not a qualified snooker coach, but even I can spot a couple of obvious 'quirks' in Judd Trump's cue action.

(1.) Instead of just moving the cue backwards and forwards in a straight line, Judd aims to the left on every shot and only pushes the cue through straight on the final delivery.

(2.) Also, during the final delivery, Judd moves his head and upper body both forwards and downwards.

These 'quirks' are not so noticeable on close range, simple pots. But, on long distance pots, they stand out like a sore thumb!

If you don't believe me, please go to YouTube and check it out for yourself. Just look for a few long distance pots where Judd is cueing directly into the line of the camera. Then you will see these 'quirks straight away.

Judd got to Number 1 in the world with these 'quirks' in his cue action, so I cannot possibly say that Judd's technique is bad.

All I am saying is that it would do no harm for Judd to see a good snooker coach.

It might not make any difference. But, on the other hand, it might help him to play well more consistently.

I do agree with what you are saying Achamian but do we know that Judd hasn't a coach, surely most pros nowadays seek the help of coaches when their form dips.

i have seen Mark Selby come down to Sheffield seeking advice from a coach that i use myself.

its true that one cannot see errors themselves, and an observer can see mistakes more easily, i also agree that a coach doesn't have to be a top player too, and most coaches who have coached the best have not been top pros themselves, however they have good technical knowledge and can help a player iron out flaws in their game.

so it seems that we agree on most things Achamian, don't get me wrong i wasn't having a go at you at all, i was merely commenting in general about many players that i hear either in clubs or on forums who criticise pro players techniques yet they themselves are riddled with many technical flaws and have no answer to.

[Achamian]

All I was getting at that there are some that quickly jump to conclusions to why a pro player is playing badly and then blame it his bad technique, yet they are in the top 10 in the world.

I am not saying that Judd Trump's technique is bad.

But I will say that, just because someone is in the top 10 in the world, it doesn't mean that their technique is infallible. Sometimes small errors can creep in which the player himself is not aware of.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, both Stephen Hendry and Tiger Woods employed the services of 'technical coaches'. And, in their particular sports, they were the best players the world has ever seen.

I am not a qualified snooker coach, but even I can spot a couple of obvious 'quirks' in Judd Trump's cue action.

(1.) Instead of just moving the cue backwards and forwards in a straight line, Judd aims to the left on every shot and only pushes the cue through straight on the final delivery.

(2.) Also, during the final delivery, Judd moves his head and upper body both forwards and downwards.

These 'quirks' are not so noticeable on close range, simple pots. But, on long distance pots, they stand out like a sore thumb!

If you don't believe me, please go to YouTube and check it out for yourself. Just look for a few long distance pots where Judd is cueing directly into the line of the camera. Then you will see these 'quirks straight away.

Judd got to Number 1 in the world with these 'quirks' in his cue action, so I cannot possibly say that Judd's technique is bad.

All I am saying is that it would do no harm for Judd to see a good snooker coach.

It might not make any difference. But, on the other hand, it might help him to play well more consistently.

[alabadi]

Point taken tommygunner, don't get me wrong we all have the right to criticise or analyse a snooker players game, be it a pro or amateur. And yes you are right that after years of playing the game we can suss out what is the right shot to play.

All I was getting at that there are some that quickly jump to conclusions to why a pro player is playing badly and then blame it his bad technique, yet they are in the top 10 in the world .

I think that all players pros and amateurs a like can dip in and out of form, and I feel that this causes the errors which we may notice. so i dont think all of a sudden their technique is to blame, it could be anything, lack of sleep, how they feel and so on, I like Trump and yes he can be quite aggressive sometimes, but isn't that what makes him exciting. The fact that he goes for outrageous shots. When he's on form he usually gets them but when he's out of form he looks amateurish.

[tommygunner1309]

uhh no

i don't think its the critisism that i'm bothered about, anyone can criticize and everyone has an opinion, its those that are analysing his technique and dishing out advice, what he's doing wrong.

to me its like an amateur boxer giving mohammed Ali advice how to dodge a punch

There are thousands of amateurs out there, and many on this forum that know the game inside and out. In my case, I can forecast what shot the player will take when watching the Worlds on TV and have been playing the game for over 30 years. So, why am I not a pro or have won the WSC? Simple - sadly, I don't have the skill, talent, natural ability or whatever else you want to call it to make the grade and convert what I see. I know the right shot to take, to put my opponent in trouble, but may only get it right twice in ten attempts. Because I don't have the skill to convert the shot, hitting it too thin or too thick, or putting unwanted side on the white, doesn't mean I am unqualified to analyze the game. I watched Steve Davis win his 6 world titles back in the 80's and still watch him today. The difference I see is that today, Steve takes far longer over his shots than he used to. To bear this out, He has just won the World Seniors. Watching him get his 68 break which virtually handed him the title, he looked like the old Steve. Why? He was playing against the clock, a 30 second timer. O'Sullivan was asked how he could score 147 in just 5 mins 20? Ronnie answered that if he thought about it too much, he probably wouldn't have got it. That's the difference. Raw talent and ability is what the top pro's have that we don't, but it still doesn't make us technically ignorant. You may see from my avatar that I know Steve personally - but would I mention my thoughts to him - never in a million years, I wouldn't have the gall to tell the great man.
With Judd, there is no doubt of his huge ability and talent, I love to watch him, and would love to see him win the Worlds but there are still things that are obvious which spoil his chances. One incident I am thinking of was in the final against Higgins. Judd only need the blue to tie up the frame and move ahead. He hit it at 200mph and missed what was to him a relatively simple pot and Higgins went on to win frame and later, match. This was a schoolboy error - and I think this is what lets Judd down. A little more thought or care - and he could win it all

[alabadi]

Do you get it now

uhh no

i don't think its the critisism that i'm bothered about, anyone can criticize and everyone has an opinion, its those that are analysing his technique and dishing out advice, what he's doing wrong.

to me its like an amateur boxer giving mohammed Ali advice how to dodge a punch

[Achamian]

i find it fascinating, how us mere beginners & amateurs can criticize a top pro snooker players (former No.1 currently No.3) cue action or technique.

I find it fascinating how you think we can't criticize it.

Do you think Frank Callan could beat Stephen Hendry at snooker? Obviously he couldn't, but he used to coach Stephen Hendry all the time.

Do you think Sean Foley could beat Tiger Woods at golf? Obviously he couldn't, but he coaches Tiger Woods all the time.

Do you get it now?

[hotpot]

I find it hard that anyone can doubt him as world class he has shown the game to compete with and beat the very best out there , you dont lose that talent , when he was at his best a very lot of people were tipping him to dominate and asking who's going to beat him , now he's lost his form some are questioning his talent , crazy .

[alabadi]

i find it fascinating, how us mere beginners & amateurs can criticize a top pro snooker players (former No.1 currently No.3) cue action or technique.

i wish i had a 10th of his ability

[tommygunner1309]

this raises also the possibility that he is vastly over rated and actually does not have the talent mentally to do much in the game?

I think this sums it up completely. Especially the words 'have the talent mentally' ---- I have always wondered about Judd and why a talented kid who seems to pot 'em off the lampshade, and is no doubt a great talent - fails so miserably so often. I think it is in the head - something is just not there mentally. Mind you, having said that --- I wish to heaven that I could play a tenth as good as he does ..............

[ADR147]

Provided they stop talking about naughty snooker, I couldn't care less about the rest of the hype.

indeed - that is extremely annoying!

[DeanH]

I also noticed this about his cue action against osullivan in the worlds.lots of movement in the bridge arm and shoulders.I also noticed in more recent matches he looked a bit more nervous than normal.
As I have said before I personally like watching him play and hope he can get back to winning ways. But he will have to work harder on his game.
Has he got a coach to help him.

Has been mentioned before that he has not worked with any coach.