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Ferrules and Throw and Spin

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  • #16
    Originally posted by sberry View Post
    thought we were talking about deflection, not defective cues - why are you now talking about whippy cues, these should be avoided anyway

    it's like the man claiming pixies and dragons must exist because you can't prove they don't - in other words, it's bollocks

    why do you want Trevor White to comment, does he know more than Terry Griffiths or does he just believe in something different or have a commercial interest in telling you something different?

    brass ferrule with elk or fibre with laminated hard, ash, maple or carbon, it will do the same if you hit it the same
    We are master blaster has moved topics

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    • #17
      No I haven't moved topics, if anyone has used a snooker cue with a plastic/fibre ferrule, I'd be interested to know your thoughts on throw and spin.

      I'd like TW to comment because he doesn't have a commercial interest! He makes cues, not ferrules. But he does understand cues, ferrules and tips I hear. But anyone with experience of playing with fibre/plastic would be interesting. Mythman?
      Last edited by Master Blaster; 3 March 2015, 05:21 PM.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Master Blaster View Post
        So you're saying Trump would pot the ball exactly the same with a very stiff Ultimate compared to his whippy ultimate? And he'd screw the same length, really?

        Trevor White, please come in! I'd be interested to hear what Trevor would say about this.
        Trump doesn't play with an Ultimate

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        • #19
          I hardly think it's enough of a difference to make me care !

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          • #20
            Originally posted by jrc750 View Post
            I hardly think it's enough of a difference to make me care !
            Fair enough mate. So you didn't order an MW with black spin then? I thought Trump switched to a Parris cue? I assumed it was an ultimate. What did John make him then?

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            • #21
              he made him a 3/4 unicorn horn cue spliced with dragon tusks and a laminated smurf tip

              some players have their own personal preference for equipment and some people like to copy other players styles, at the end of the day if it's not a defective cue it will do the same thing according to your ability and that includes your mental state of mind - if you think it's special it is for you

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Leo View Post
                Do you think any pros ever read some of the posts on here and think WTF are they all going on about. Just got a little feeling that the cue enthusiasts on here worry more about the flex of shaft and stiffness of their cues then the pros who use them for a living do. May not, I just can't see it TBH.
                a huge HUGE +1
                #jeSuisMasterBlasterBarryWhite2v1977Luclex(andHisF ictiousTwin)BigSplash!

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Master Blaster View Post
                  Fair enough mate. So you didn't order an MW with black spin then? I thought Trump switched to a Parris cue? I assumed it was an ultimate. What did John make him then?
                  Yes i have a MW blackspin, but personally i don't feel any difference to a brass ferrule, i think it's just the shaft that suits me which makes me love the cue. Every single cue plays slightly different, so unless you keep changing ferrules on the same cue you ain't ever really know if they react different or not, and then that's assuming you know what your feeling etc (i don't think i do)
                  I believe Trump just walked into the Parris shop and picked a Special out of the rack ie it wasn't made especially for him.

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                  • #24
                    but obviously, hand spliced cues deflect less than machine spliced cues which pot better, and 3/4 cues can't screw back as far as one piece cues, like I said earlier let's not go anywhere near ash vs maple...

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by jrc750 View Post
                      Yes i have a MW blackspin, but personally i don't feel any difference to a brass ferrule, i think it's just the shaft that suits me which makes me love the cue. Every single cue plays slightly different, so unless you keep changing ferrules on the same cue you ain't ever really know if they react different or not, and then that's assuming you know what your feeling etc (i don't think i do)
                      I believe Trump just walked into the Parris shop and picked a Special out of the rack ie it wasn't made especially for him.
                      An experience based on trying different things, not an opinion. Thanks JRC. Is the shaft slimmer and more tapered on this cue than your others please?
                      Last edited by Master Blaster; 3 March 2015, 07:16 PM.

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                      • #26
                        Terry has answered this in a previous post when stating that a heavier ferrule will throw more than a lighter one, It's a fact which can be proven with a simple Formula. Kinetic energy equals mass times speed squared divided by two. A heavier object in motion has more kinetic energy and is therefore more resistant to sudden changes in direction which means the cue ball will be thrown more off line. Think of an extreme example like a bullet. Although it weighs only a few grams it's kinetic energy at speed is immense. Also a heavy round from an AK47 has a lot more punch than a smaller one from a SAE 80, at similar speeds. But the most difference in kinetic energy is achieved by a change in speed. Double the speed quadruples kinetic energy, that's why if you hit the ball harder it will throw a lot more than a soft shot. Back in my days as a race mechanic we took painstaking care of making the unsprung mass of the cars (i.e. the wheels with all it's components like brakes, uprights suspension parts) as humanly light as possible for the tyres to keep optimum contact with the road at all times. Hope this answers it satisfactory. I think the question should be, if none of the pros use any of the low deflection stuff maybe its disadvantages outweigh it's advantage of less throw

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                        • #27
                          some of the science
                          http://billiards.colostate.edu/techn...ew/TP_A-31.pdf

                          basically cue ball deflection is proportional to the distance-off-center where the cue hits the cue ball, and the effective mass of the front-end of the cue.
                          i would imagine that's why acuerate cues are tapered such and have a small tip to reduce end mass.
                          not sure if a ferrule has enough mass to have a big impact on this.

                          you'd be surprised how many people have trouble seeing the dead-center of the ball while cueing up. most people would have a offset and it can take years of practice just to hit the ball consistently in the center - this is mostly due to a dominant eye which most of us have. so reducing throw can be good thing, but by definition all cues throw.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rimmer10 View Post
                            Terry has answered this in a previous post when stating that a heavier ferrule will throw more than a lighter one, It's a fact which can be proven with a simple Formula. Kinetic energy equals mass times speed squared divided by two. A heavier object in motion has more kinetic energy and is therefore more resistant to sudden changes in direction which means the cue ball will be thrown more off line. Think of an extreme example like a bullet. Although it weighs only a few grams it's kinetic energy at speed is immense. Also a heavy round from an AK47 has a lot more punch than a smaller one from a SAE 80, at similar speeds. But the most difference in kinetic energy is achieved by a change in speed. Double the speed quadruples kinetic energy, that's why if you hit the ball harder it will throw a lot more than a soft shot. Back in my days as a race mechanic we took painstaking care of making the unsprung mass of the cars (i.e. the wheels with all it's components like brakes, uprights suspension parts) as humanly light as possible for the tyres to keep optimum contact with the road at all times. Hope this answers it satisfactory. I think the question should be, if none of the pros use any of the low deflection stuff maybe its disadvantages outweigh it's advantage of less throw
                            Do you not mean SA 80

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                            • #29
                              Theres been plenty of discussion about ferrules and tips and tip mass over the years.
                              There is also lots of information and testing done on youtube and websites like http://billiards.colostate.edu/threa...t.html#endmass
                              or this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nx4r0NSsxqo
                              Google 'cue ball squirt and end mass' and plenty will come up.
                              I personally play with a pair shaft and titanium ferrule, but the main reason for using titanium was that the wall thicknes of titanium can be very thin when compared to brass and the weight is about 25% of brass. A thinner ferrule means you can have a larger wood tenon so more wood to tip contact which to me is important when playing with an 8mm tip.
                              Whether the throw is less using titanium I don't know as I've never used brass on this cue.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Leo View Post
                                Do you not mean SA 80
                                Yep, that's it

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