cue rotation - good or bad?

[DandyA]

Note there that Terry is tightening the grip as he delivers and even worse his wrist joint moves as he tightens those fingers. That is not considered good form. J6uk has it right...I use the 'eye' between forefinger and thumb with the thumb pointing straight down and my cue doesn't rotate like Terry's does in this video.

No way to tell if he's taking it off the line of aim in this video though.

Maybe this won't be too verbose for j6uk

Terry

just to add I don't think it's Terry Griffith's grip hand at 6:09 - I think it's the chap we see at 5:40 (whoever he is) as he's wearing a gold coloured waistcoat in both shots ...

if you watch Terry Griffiths grip hand at the start of the video there doesn't seem to be any cue rotation (albeit we only see it from distance) ...

[j6uk]

Thanks for your advise. I will do that for 1 or 2 hours on Wednesday.

that may be a bit long. i'd do it 10-15min before you start hitting the white for the next couple of weeks.. come back then and lets us know how your getting on

[j6uk]

this guy can play a bit, and you should notice some fractional cue rotation on the bs and f-through, like a run-through shot for the black on 32. this seems to have very little effect the moment of impact to the white because he goes on to make quite a good break

[cyberheater]

Thanks for your advise. I will do that for 1 or 2 hours on Wednesday.

Far more important is to push your cue through until your hand makes contact with your chest in a consistent manner.

Here is everything I have learnt so far about cueing from the excellent folks on this board.


1. Stand behind the object ball to determine the back of ball contact point. Keep that point fixed in memory. This is the point on the back of the object ball that if you hit it directly, the object ball would go straight into the pocket.

2. Now move your position to stand behind the white ball to determine the line of aim such that the white will hit the back of ball contact point. You should be standing straight and square on to the line of aim.

3. Decide on the type of shot you will require and the position of the white after the shot. Work out the shot strength, any spin required and what point of the white you need to achieve the shot. All of this must be done whilst standing so that the only thing you need to do on the shot is to execute it.

4. Your nose must in in a directly in line on the line of aim.

5. Slowly walk in on the shot and immediately drop down such that your head and nose is still directly on the line of aim behind the cue ball, the tip of your cue is as close to the white as possible at the correct point of contact on the white for the shot and your cue arm is at the vertical position. Your grip hand should be above your right foot which should also be on the line of aim. Your chin should be on the cue and your cue should also be touching your chest to help guide it. The grip should be relaxed enough to allow your fingers to open up on the rear swing but not too loose. The main grip should come from the contact point between the inside pad if your thumb and first finger.

6. Keep your elbow high and your shoulder locked such that your elbow does not drop on the shot. Only move your cue by bending the elbow joint. Do not move your wrist. It might help to slightly cock it forward.

7. A couple of feathers of the cue where the tip once again almost touches the cue ball at the correct impact point.

8. Front pause. Looking at the contact point on the white.

9. A very slow rear swing with the length in proportion to the strength of shot. Keep moving your eyes back and forth from the cue ball to the object ball to check alignment.

10. A good Rear pause. At this point your eyes should be now be firmly focused on the line of aim contact point of the object ball.

11. Stay rock solid still. If anything doesn't feel right at the point. Stand up and start all over again.

12. Whilst looking at the line of aim contact point, slowly accelerate and drive the cue through smoothly in a straight line until the hand hits the chest. The only thing that should move is your elbow joint.

13. Don't move until the balls comes to rest.

[vmax4steve]

Far more important is to push your cue through until your hand makes contact with your chest in a consistent manner.

Here is everything I have learnt so far about cueing from the excellent folks on this board.


1. Stand behind the object ball to determine the back of ball contact point. Keep that point fixed in memory. This is the point on the back of the object ball that if you hit it directly, the object ball would go straight into the pocket.

2. Now move your position to stand behind the white ball to determine the line of aim such that the white will hit the back of ball contact point.
# Stand in the position where the line of aim is most clearly seen according to where the cue will sit between your eyes, where your eyesight perceives the line of aim. A slight turn of the head or body or use a sightright DIY thingy to find it. Know where it is and stand always in this position before getting down into your stance.

3. Decide on the type of shot you will require and the position of the white after the shot. Work out the shot strength, any spin required and what point of the white you need to achieve the shot. All of this must be done whilst standing so that the only thing you need to do on the shot is to execute it.
See the shot, don't think in words.

4. Your nose must in in a directly in line on the line of aim.
And if you're Mick McCarthy ? this is a no no. simply do what is stated above # You must not stand in such a position where your eyes do not perceive the line of aim and then turn your body or head at the last split second when getting down into your stance. Step into the stance from the position where you see the line of aim to get the cue on this line

5. Slowly walk in on the shot and immediately drop down such that your head and nose is still directly on the line of aim behind the cue ball, the tip of your cue is as close to the white as possible at the correct point of contact on the white for the shot and your cue arm is at the vertical position. Your grip hand should be above your right foot which should also be on the line of aim. Your chin should be on the cue and your cue should also be touching your chest to help guide it. The grip should be relaxed enough to allow your fingers to open up on the rear swing but not too loose. The main grip should come from the contact point between the inside pad if your thumb and first finger.
Drop down while looking at either the contact point on the object ball or the cue ball or while moving your eyes between the two. Let your eyes guide you into the correct position for your cue to be placed on the line of aim. Let where your eyes perceive the line of aim to be place your feet for you. Don't follow blind instructions that might put you in the wrong position to see the line of aim clearly. Let your eyes guide you.
Your grip is your own as long as it's not tight and the fingers open on the backswing and close on delivery. Feel the fingers opening and closing and allow this to subconsciously guide your arm. Don't feel the arm move, feel the fingers open and close and know that your arm moves with them.

6. Keep your elbow high and your shoulder locked such that your elbow does not drop on the shot. Only move your cue by bending the elbow joint. Do not move your wrist. It might help to slightly cock it forward.
That slight tension that you feel in your shoulder muscle when the cue arm is put into position is important. If that feeling relaxes at all during the stroke then the shoulder will drop as it relaxes. Feel that tension and keep it there until after the strike. Don't think about your wrist, just open and close the fingers of the grip the same on your feathers as you must on the strike.

7. A couple of feathers of the cue where the tip once again almost touches the cue ball at the correct impact point.

8. Front pause. Looking at the contact point on the white.
Or look up at the object ball at this point and find the contact point before the final backswing. When to focus on the contact point of the object ball before and/or during the final stroke is a personal thing.

9. A very slow rear swing with the length in proportion to the strength of shot. Keep moving your eyes back and forth from the cue ball to the object ball to check alignment.

10. A good Rear pause. At this point your eyes should be now be firmly focused on the line of aim contact point of the object ball.

11. Stay rock solid still. If anything doesn't feel right at the point. Stand up and start all over again.

12. Whilst looking at the line of aim contact point, slowly accelerate and drive the cue through smoothly in a straight line until the hand hits the chest. The only thing that should move is your elbow joint.
Eyes focussed on the contact poiont of the object ball, just feel your fingers open on the backswing and close on delivery of the cue. The stroke ends when the fingers close, the momentum of the stroke will give you the correct length of follow through according to the power used. The only thing you should feel move is your fingers, arm movement should not be a conscious thought.

13. Don't move until the balls comes to rest.
If you keep your eyes focussed on the contact point of the object ball at the moment of the strike then your cue will stay on the line of aim, your head will not move, your body will not move and if you have put your cue on the correct line of aim to begin with you will not miss.

My thoughts in red.

[tabularaza]

I got some training yesterday and my stance changed a bit, I'm much mor comfortable now.
The funny thing is that there is no cue rotation anymore.
I don't know what exactly caused the change, it's just gone and my accuracy improved either.

Thanks for your advice again

[KSR2013]

I wouldn't say he is tightening the grip, simply opening and closing his fingers, including the front two that actually hold the cue. I suppose Terry that you don't open and close the front two fingers, only the back two in order to stop your cue rotating.
Myself I open and close all the fingers of my grip hand and my cue also does rotate a little bit within my hand. My thumb doesn't point straight down at the address position, it bends at the top joint to come back and rest againt the top joint of my forefinger (like Steve Davis), but does open up and point straight down on the backswing when I open my fingers.

Good point! does opening forefinger cause rotation?

[tomlimcj]

weird, my little finger tightening causes the cue rotation. i grip mostly with my first 2 fingers and last 2 fingers resting on the cue. when i deliver the shot, my first 2 fingers will be the ones maintaining that grip. Last 2 fingers, especially the last finger, i try not to tighten it at all.
my cue butt is 30mm, thus it presses against the webbed area between thumb and 2nd finger without leaving any gap and still allows for a comfortable "wrap" of the fingers. if the cue has been resting on the fingers with more gap between cuebutt and webbed area, then i would say this 2nd grip is more prone to cue rotation.

[KSR2013]

Im not at the club so I have got cue out and tested cue actions out on dining table (lol)

Ive found with thumb and finger grip the cue rotates if wrist cocked in but doesnt rotate if wrist cocked out.

[Terry Davidson]

Im not at the club so I have got cue out and tested cue actions out on dining table (lol)

Ive found with thumb and finger grip the cue rotates if wrist cocked in but doesnt rotate if wrist cocked out.

This is why I advocate a natural wrist cock (outwards is natural if you're forming a fist-like grip

Terry