Sidespin on a snooker table both with and against the nap

[OmaMiesta]

Just a point of order but it would be less confusing if we stopped talking about spin transfer - it is spin induced throw we're discussing here.

Could you clarify the difference between the two? I was under the impression that spin induced throw is caused by the transferring of spin from cb to ob?

[Terry Davidson]

For Ramon and the rest of the bunch...

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There are a widr angle on the set-up I used. Remember the CB is frozen on the black and the red is about 1mm from the black, black/red plant is pointed to the outside of the green pocket and black/CB combo is pointed at the far jaw where the red is and where a slow shot will slop in like Jason's first shot. Using side should get you more to the centre of the pocket and whether it's SIT or not I can't say and I don't care. It could even be CIT. Or maybe some kind of voodoo even.

Ramon...my red is EXACTLY where Jasons was but it doesn't matter because we will all use RH side to pot this ball.

A question for you...red ball frozen on top cushion you're behind about a foot at an angle. How do you play this shot? With running side or reverse?

[throtts]

BS, do you think Jason's black pots from near the top cush..?

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

But were not arguing if its 1/8 or 1/4, the fact is that the potting angle is covered and wont go plain ball. Even with a swerving effect the cue ball would still need to avoid the red ball in order to hit the potting angle which is impossible. This proves that it isnt the cueball swerving thats causing the ball to pot, its the spin that is transferring onto the object ball. Seems pretty logically straight forward.

Just a point of order but it would be less confusing if we stopped talking about spin transfer - it is spin induced throw we're discussing here.

[Terry Davidson]

Dr dave explains it the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jUL_8aZ2LU

You've joined and not read the whole string as you wouldn't live that long so let me say this...I BELIEVE IN WHAT DR. DAVE CALLS CUT-INDUCED THROW but I have always called it 'Impact Throw' which I believe is more accurate. It even happens on a straight-in shot but the throw is straight ahead and not seen unless the OB jumps a bit.

[OmaMiesta]

Dr dave explains it the best. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jUL_8aZ2LU

[Terry Davidson]

If I'm understanding your scenario correctly, pretty sure what you described is just cut induced throw which occurs with plain ball striking. Id like to see what you mean in person for 100 percent certainty but sounds just like you setting up a plant to a far jaw and throwing it in at medium slow pace.

What plant? Yes I set the CB up in a plant position to show it could reach BOB before it hit the red but it's not worth arguing as I would use side anyway. But I'll show you or if you're ever coming up here I'll show you right here.

[Terry Davidson]

I'm trying to upload photos to show where all the balls were lined up with pockets in view but am having trouble. Your second photo is very misleading as the camera was to the side of the black.

[OmaMiesta]

Set up the shot yourself with the red/black combo pointing towards the edge of the green pocket and put cueball in plant position on the black to the far jaw on the top pocket and you'll see the CB can be frozen on the black and be about 1mm from the red so it will hit the black first. I will be in the Corner Bank on Oct 7th and I will show you exactly what happens and I can make that shot without side although I would use side anyway to hit the full pocket opening.

If I'm understanding your scenario correctly, pretty sure what you described is just cut induced throw which occurs with plain ball striking. Id like to see what you mean in person for 100 percent certainty but sounds just like you setting up a plant to a far jaw and throwing it in at medium slow pace.

[j6uk]

I guess even if I was right you guys wouldn't believe me. With the shot as Jason set it up I would use RH side myself just to get the black more towards centre-pocket. I'm not saying the black is pottable plain ball from that angle but I AM saying it would be pottable with the CB in a different spot. I don't disagree with the use of side all I disagree with is that the black left the spot at an angle other than 180* from the cueball.

I don't care if you all think SIT actually potted the ball or not, to me it was the cueball coming to the black at a sharper angle, not much, but enough and looking at the video again even though Jason has a great cue action there wasn't much spin left on the CB by the time it hit the black.

Jason's black/red plant is lined up to somewhere near the green pocket and my own was lined up on the same spot despite what Ramon says.

then tel could you hear from the video of the first three shots straight on the black how crisp i hit the 3rd black? when i made two in a row. i timed that shot really well with right gear just below center of the white, just missing the red and contacting the black at 3/4 ball and it went bang into the center of the pocket.

[Hello, Mr Big Shot]

You said we should not consider spin transfer and now you say it does happen. What I'm saying is it's so little that is doesn't count for anything. You also said with the shot off the pink spot with side you would get 1" per foot of throw on the OB or 9" to the bottom cushion and I couldn't get that at all and against the nap like that I got about 3" with the CB only and it was for comparison purposes. Without swerve or jacking up the cue, just a normal drag shot with spin. Your 9" is way too much but get on a snooker table and try it and see what you get. It will be more against the nap I think.

I got almost zero deviation when using the pink with a CB and to the left might have been a roll on my table because that's how little it was.

How many times must these clips be linked?

https://youtu.be/tRKBjl2PuSw

But we are talking about SIT. Stick to that and stop talking about spin transfer. You're confusing yourself.

[Terry Davidson]

Terry ,

Going by the position of CB and the Red , that's more than enough to cover the potting position ( center ball striking ).

Take a look at how and where you have spoted the red and comper it with how it was in J6's vid , please .
You placed the red almost stright behind the black .

And NO , as far as i can see no one called you a Liar !!


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Your second screen shot is taken from the right of the black and not directly behind it. The black/red plant is pointed to the inside edge of the green pocket and mine was the same.

[Terry Davidson]

But were not arguing if its 1/8 or 1/4, the fact is that the potting angle is covered and wont go plain ball. Even with a swerving effect the cue ball would still need to avoid the red ball in order to hit the potting angle which is impossible. This proves that it isnt the cueball swerving thats causing the ball to pot, its the spin that is transferring onto the object ball. Seems pretty logically straight forward.

Set up the shot yourself with the red/black combo pointing towards the edge of the green pocket and put cueball in plant position on the black to the far jaw on the top pocket and you'll see the CB can be frozen on the black and be about 1mm from the red so it will hit the black first. I will be in the Corner Bank on Oct 7th and I will show you exactly what happens and I can make that shot without side although I would use side anyway to hit the full pocket opening.

[Terry Davidson]

okay lets say tel and vmax are right in that the black was potable from a lower angle closer to the cush at say 1/4 ball, though this is not the point or is it relevant to the straight black position. but lets say it did go and bob was down at 1/4 ball, by there book that means what really happened in the vid when i played that straight black with side, my white spun off down towards the cushion and then curved back up in a curly way and found that 1/4 ball line to bob. and simply knocked it in.
and i did that 3/3 but i missed 1 on the far jaw, need more practice.

I guess even if I was right you guys wouldn't believe me. With the shot as Jason set it up I would use RH side myself just to get the black more towards centre-pocket. I'm not saying the black is pottable plain ball from that angle but I AM saying it would be pottable with the CB in a different spot. I don't disagree with the use of side all I disagree with is that the black left the spot at an angle other than 180* from the cueball.

I don't care if you all think SIT actually potted the ball or not, to me it was the cueball coming to the black at a sharper angle, not much, but enough and looking at the video again even though Jason has a great cue action there wasn't much spin left on the CB by the time it hit the black.

Jason's black/red plant is lined up to somewhere near the green pocket and my own was lined up on the same spot despite what Ramon says.

[OmaMiesta]

But were not arguing if its 1/8 or 1/4, the fact is that the potting angle is covered and wont go plain ball. Even with a swerving effect the cue ball would still need to avoid the red ball in order to hit the potting angle which is impossible. This proves that it isnt the cueball swerving thats causing the ball to pot, its the spin that is transferring onto the object ball. Seems pretty logically straight forward.