JP cues the best?

[MikeWooldridge]

For instance its been said before, if I put about a dozen or so cues on a table and took the badges off and they were from all the top cue makers you can think of, nobody and I mean nobody would know who's is who's.

Nonsense.

Does not matter how many times it's been said before, either by you or anyone else, you are wrong.

Maybe you personally could not tell the difference between the cues you have owned and seen, but you are wholly incorrect to suggest to others that this is a fact.

There is a world of difference between the work of 'so-called' top cuemakers that is clearly noticeable in the feel and small details that a good player or collector/connossieur notices the moment they pick up a cue.

Some of the differences are subtle, some glaringly obvious, but they are clearly there to the trained eye. Without the need to refer to a badge.

For sure, many people will buy based on brand name alone. They are idiots.

In fact, line these people up and your theory may even work for a short time, cos they have no idea what is good and what is bad. But i'm sure even some of them would pick up noticeable differences and possibly regret their 'brand' inspired choice...

But your statement does not apply to people who know what they are looking for. Period.

[belld]

Just for the record i have owned three Parris cues and sold them on in no time.
You know after a few sessions if you are going to get on with a cue in my
opinion. I would not give the parris cues my time of day again for the price
you pay for them they are overpriced. I am currently using a Phoenix cue
and find it the best cue i have used in my 20 years of playing. It must suit
the way i play and i feel totally at home with it and this one is here to stay.
Two of my team members play with Mike Wooldridge cues and swear by them.
They have played with many top cues and they have always come back to
there old trusted Wooldridge. Maybee i will try one of Mike's cues one day if
only the missus would see sense and give me the credit card lol

[ADR147]

Nonsense.

Does not matter how many times it's been said before, either by you or anyone else, you are wrong.

Maybe you personally could not tell the difference between the cues you have owned and seen, but you are wholly incorrect to suggest to others that this is a fact.

There is a world of difference between the work of 'so-called' top cuemakers that is clearly noticeable in the feel and small details that a good player or collector/connossieur notices the moment they pick up a cue.

Some of the differences are subtle, some glaringly obvious, but they are clearly there to the trained eye. Without the need to refer to a badge.

For sure, many people will buy based on brand name alone. They are idiots.

In fact, line these people up and your theory may even work for a short time, cos they have no idea what is good and what is bad. But i'm sure even some of them would pick up noticeable differences and possibly regret their 'brand' inspired choice...

But your statement does not apply to people who know what they are looking for. Period.

agreed, totally wrong, the finish alone will tell somebody who knows what they are looking at who made it.

[justalex81]

i've owned a jp exclusive and i now have a custom designed ultimate. I am pleased with it and it plays very well and looks awesome (i'll upload pics to the cue pic thread tomorrow), but i have no doubt that my cue could have been made to a higher standard by another maker. A friend of mine had a cue made at exactly the same time and his is no where near as well made as mine. the splicing was ropey and the chevrons on the shaft weren't all that. Consistency is the key i think.

[MikeWooldridge]

i've owned a jp exclusive and i now have a custom designed ultimate. I am pleased with it and it plays very well and looks awesome (i'll upload pics to the cue pic thread tomorrow), but i have no doubt that my cue could have been made to a higher standard by another maker. A friend of mine had a cue made at exactly the same time and his is no where near as well made as mine. the splicing was ropey and the chevrons on the shaft weren't all that. Consistency is the key i think.

yes. consistency is the issue.

as a percentage i have seen/repaired/altered very few jp cues that, imo, were any good. but if you have a good one then they can be very nice indeed.

[FOXMULDER]

JP cues are popular, no doubt. But popularity should never be the deciding factor. McDonald's are popular, but still, the steak and ale pie in my local pub is infinitely better quality food, and cheaper.

[ste bed]

they are not - it's an urban myth.

but its not alotof the top players are using parris cues

[poolqjunkie]

The badge bit could be attributed to all cues though. For instance its been said before, if I put about a dozen or so cues on a table and took the badges off and they were from all the top cue makers you can think of, nobody and I mean nobody would know who's is who's.
This is why I don't understand why people get so tetchy when JP is mentioned, everyone seems to have an opinion, good and bad, but largely bad. Yet they are just contradicting themselves as they use other named cue makers and are also by definition paying for the badge.

Ultimately if you put these cues on a table unbadged would people really pay the asking price if I said one cost £300, the other cost £500 but you wouldn't be able to have a badge on the cue! I think the resounding response would be no!

With all due respect a lot of people can tell. Cues are not made by a cookie cutter then have different badges stamped onto them by different makers.

Finish is a big clue (although I have read from time to time some people seem to think there are two kinds of finish--oil finish and varnish--but of course it is not the case) and also the way the splices are put together (width and length of splices...etc), the tapering of the cue, the finish on the shaft, the way the shaft is sealed...if the cues will have just a white blank badge then how the badge is installed can already narrow it down A LOT.

Some people buy a cue just because of the name and the badge, I agree with you. But those people are not real cue connossieurs; they buy cues simply to show off. Sometimes you will see people like that showing off many many cues but do not seem to know much about them except how much they are. These are as you said people who buy based on the names and the brands. They are not true cue lovers.

A knowledgable cue collector and someone who truly loves cues, on the other hand, buys a cue because it is a beautiful cue, not because of the badge. They have the knowledge and appreciation for the fineer craftsmanship and top playability of a cue.

All cues started off as an unknown, but some become really collectible and some are just so so. It could be due to marketing like pro endorsements and such. I agree with you on that. But a lot of cue makers do not do that kind of things and their cues have become very collectible due to their outstanding quality over the years.

Afterall, some cues are worth more money because they are generally considered by the connossieurs as being better cues to begin with--better craftsmanship, better attention to details, more consistent playability...etc.

These attributes can be observed in the eyes of a knowledgable collector without any reference to the badge.

[Neil Taperell]

JP cues are popular, no doubt. But popularity should never be the deciding factor. McDonald's are popular, but still, the steak and ale pie in my local pub is infinitely better quality food, and cheaper.

Great comparison ...like that .

[jaffa.johnson]

but its not alotof the top players are using parris cues

Please name all of them?

I believe that some players play with parris cues but not as many as people think. based on watching people play & the threads on here.

A lot of people do not play with parris cues.

[jaffa.johnson]

Airin,

I agree with what you are saying.

I understand cuemans point and if he said the average bloke would not tell the difference if cues are unbadged then I would agree. A lot of cues are sold based on the name not quality.

I personally would back myself to be able to identify certain cue makers which I have owned / seen.

ADR has much more experience than most and evidence on previous posts prove this.

[liquidsymphony]

The badge bit could be attributed to all cues though. For instance its been said before, if I put about a dozen or so cues on a table and took the badges off and they were from all the top cue makers you can think of, nobody and I mean nobody would know who's is who's.
This is why I don't understand why people get so tetchy when JP is mentioned, everyone seems to have an opinion, good and bad, but largely bad. Yet they are just contradicting themselves as they use other named cue makers and are also by definition paying for the badge.

Ultimately if you put these cues on a table unbadged would people really pay the asking price if I said one cost £300, the other cost £500 but you wouldn't be able to have a badge on the cue! I think the resounding response would be no!

well you're absolutly right . in fact the best cue is the one that suit your playing whoever made it , even if it's not that well finished , even if splices are not that perfect , even if woods used are not that beautifull .
just look at mick hill's cue when he won world championship against darren appleton : worst cue ever
no disrespect for JP cues as they surely are great

[poolqjunkie]

Airin,

I agree with what you are saying.

I understand cuemans point and if he said the average bloke would not tell the difference if cues are unbadged then I would agree. A lot of cues are sold based on the name not quality.

I personally would back myself to be able to identify certain cue makers which I have owned / seen.

ADR has much more experience than most and evidence on previous posts prove this.

Yes Jaffa lots of folks do not know the difference(s) so they may just buy based on the brand name. I agree with that.

Some people may just buy a cue because it is the most expensive. Such person clearly deso not know much about cues.

There are always people with a lot of money but very little taste or knowledge who like to "own things" to show off. They will buy the most expensive or well known brand names just because it is the most well known/expensive.

I have a feeling cueman and I agree on more than we really know.

[damienlch]

...Yet they are just contradicting themselves as they use other named cue makers and are also by definition paying for the badge...

Whether there is a contradiction would depend very much on the reasons why a person chooses one cue maker / brand over another. If the decision to buy was made solely based on the hype, spin, popularity or what have you, then it is a poor decision. However, if a person makes an informed, deliberated decision in choosing one cue brand over another, then there is no contradiction whatsoever.

I believe all the top cue makers earned their reputation by producing good works. Some may have more business acumen and perhaps that's one reason why their brand may become more popular and more sought after than others.

...Ultimately if you put these cues on a table unbadged would people really pay the asking price if I said one cost £300, the other cost £500 but you wouldn't be able to have a badge on the cue! I think the resounding response would be no!

So I can't have a go with them at the table before buying? Then, I'd pick the prettiest one with the cleanest lines, smoothest finish and nicest balance...

[DeanH]

Here is a list I have of the top 32 (since German Masters) as well as a few old favourites and their cue makes
From this list of 36, 9 have a Parris, which is by far the largest number of one make and a healthy percentage of the range (28%), but I would not class it as "most pros have a Parris" but definitely a major market share.
Obviously this will could change with the Unknowns being Known
If anyone has any info please don't be shy

Mark Allen : Hunt & Osborne or Mastercue
Stuart Bingham : Gary Taylor (CueDoctor)
Marcus Campbell : Unknown
Ali Carter : John Parris
Jamie Cope : Tony Wilshaw
Dominic Dale : Hunt & Osborne (possibly changed recently)
Mark Davis : Unknown
Steve Davis : B&W Ye Olde Ash
Ryan Day : Trevor White
Ken Doherty : Ash rack cue
Graeme Dott : Hunt & Osborne
Peter Ebdon : Riley Dufferin Steve Davis or 1pc Stamford (ash/ebony)
Tom Ford : Unknown
Marco Fu : Kevin Deroo
Martin Gould : John Parris
Barry Hawkins : Unknown
Stephen Hendry : Acuerate Legend
John Higgins : North West Cues
Andrew Higginson : Unknown
Ding Junhui : Stamford
Mark King : Joe Davis 147
Stephen Lee : John Parris
Stephen Maguire : Robin Cook
Ian McCulloch : North West (shaft) + Riley (butt)
Shaun Murphy : Tom Newman 1370
Fergal O'Brien : Unknown
Ronnie O'Sullivan : John Parris
John Parrott : Hunt & O'Bryne
Joe Perry : John Parris
Neil Robertson : John Parris
Mark Selby : Stamford
Matthew Stevens : Hunt & O'Byrne
Judd Trump : John Parris
Ricky Walden : John Parris
Liang Wenbo : Stamford
Mark Williams : John Parris