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[armstm]

Tbf it does seem like every year ROS plays amazingly well, is hyped for the WC, but doesn't really turn up. He hasn't even made the semi finals in his last 4 and has lost to players he normally has his way with (Bingham, Hawkins, Ding, Carter). The Mark Selby loss really hit him hard IMO, even if he won't admit it.

agreed... he won 2012,2013 when he was not a strong favourite... i think high expectations are a negative pressure for him - he's said as much as in post world championship exits.

[thevenue2]

I don't know... I'd rather he at least equal Hendry, worst case scenario equal Davis. The World's is the big one and whilst he's done well there, Hendry is the king of the crucible as it stands with Davis 2nd in line.

I absolutely agree that Ronnie is the best player I've seen but there will always be an asterisk by his name if he doesn't equal Hendry. I found it a little bit wrong when Hazel unequivocally announced Ronnie as the greatest after eclipsing Hendry's triple crown wins when he is still two world titles behind Hendry.

Rubbish. Nobody calls Rafa Nadal "the greatest" even though he's won the most French Open titles, you CANNOT go off a single tournament, it wouldn't happen in any other sport, makes zero sense. Once (if) he has the most triple crowns, that's the last argument anyone would have, snuffed out.

[armstm]

Rubbish. Nobody calls Rafa Nadal "the greatest" even though he's won the most French Open titles, you CANNOT go off a single tournament, it wouldn't happen in any other sport, makes zero sense. Once (if) he has the most triple crowns, that's the last argument anyone would have, snuffed out.

rafa is in the conversation but as you say its because of the number of grand slam wins in total rather than the french open

the worlds is more important to snooker than the french is to tennis imho because the prestige attached to being world champion is bigger than being french open champion.

i'd put ronnie ahead of hendry now due to the triple crowns and the style of the way ronnie plays but the worlds 5 vs. 7 is the biggest argument for hendry (obviously) due to the prestige and length of the tournament.

[Fizzl3]

rafa is in the conversation but as you say its because of the number of grand slam wins in total rather than the french open

the worlds is more important to snooker than the french is to tennis imho because the prestige attached to being world champion is bigger than being french open champion.

i'd put ronnie ahead of hendry now due to the triple crowns and the style of the way ronnie plays but the worlds 5 vs. 7 is the biggest argument for hendry (obviously) due to the prestige and length of the tournament.

Its not just the most in triple crown total..hes tied at the top with most ranking titles throughout snooker tournys as a whole. Even things like over 1000 centuries shows his skills compared..mans playing half the tournys and considered goat..hes winning most at almost 45. If he gets another ranking titles..its done. GOAT should be engraved in his forehead.

[armstm]

Its not just the most in triple crown total..hes tied at the top with most ranking titles throughout snooker tournys as a whole. Even things like over 1000 centuries shows his skills compared..mans playing half the tournys and considered goat..hes winning most at almost 45. If he gets another ranking titles..its done. GOAT should be engraved in his forehead.

i agree - i'm on your side. i'm merely pointing out that winning when it's most important (WC) can also be a valid criterion for GOAT and also snooker is more than breakbuilding (ronnie is undisputably the greatest of all time at that). selby and higgins arguably have a better all round game etc etc.

[vmax]

It sucks having no rewind feature. It's the only thing I miss about my Sky subscription.

You need a freeview pvr Billy, I have a Humax HDR 2000T that has all the skybox features and an internet link but is freeview only as far as tv goes.
Watched the evening session this morning, not perfect snooker but then we can't expect perfect all the time, these blokes are human.
Well done Ronnie and also Neil for staying close and making a good match of it. Like Ronnie says I expect either him, Neil or Judd to be the favourites for the worlds. My money would be on Neil if I was a betting man, seems to be getting better and it wouldn't surprise me if he won in china.

[Mark187187]

I don't really see the need for the comparison. Like any sport, different players or teams are the best of their era. Was Pele better than Messi- who knows, you can't compare like-for-like, the game was entirely different. Is snooker the same now as it was in the 90's? No, for a lot of reasons. Unless 2 players consistently play each other at their peek who knows whose best. Even that doesn't say everything- I believe Nadal has the best of head2head vs Federer, but Federer is generally considered 'better'.

I watched a lot of Hendry all through the 90's. He was unstoppable. Consistently excellent for a whole decade. He pioneered how players now break build. Ronnie is undoubtably a massive natural talent, who has been successful over a long period, and been unstoppable at times. He has more flare than Hendry and is better liked (although probably more hated too). He is now beating Hendry's records, but Hendry retired earlier on account of the yips crippling his game- who knows what impact that had and whether he could have won more.

Who's best, we don't know. Are apples better than oranges? What I am 100% on is that Ronnie would give his right arm for more world titles. He thinks he's the best, and he wants to prove it.

[jimev]

I don't really see the need for the comparison. Like any sport, different players or teams are the best of their era. Was Pele better than Messi- who knows, you can't compare like-for-like, the game was entirely different. Is snooker the same now as it was in the 90's? No, for a lot of reasons. Unless 2 players consistently play each other at their peek who knows whose best. Even that doesn't say everything- I believe Nadal has the best of head2head vs Federer, but Federer is generally considered 'better'.

I watched a lot of Hendry all through the 90's. He was unstoppable. Consistently excellent for a whole decade. He pioneered how players now break build. Ronnie is undoubtably a massive natural talent, who has been successful over a long period, and been unstoppable at times. He has more flare than Hendry and is better liked (although probably more hated too). He is now beating Hendry's records, but Hendry retired earlier on account of the yips crippling his game- who knows what impact that had and whether he could have won more.

Who's best, we don't know. Are apples better than oranges? What I am 100% on is that Ronnie would give his right arm for more world titles. He thinks he's the best, and he wants to prove it.

:applouse:

[lennon11]

So guy who has (equal) most ranking wins, most non ranking/invitational wins(masters, champion of champions etc), most triple crowns, most centuries, most 147s still might not be goat?!

[Billy]

You need a freeview pvr Billy [...]

I do, but can't afford the layout right now. Thing with PVRs, though, is they're freeview and don't provide all the channels Sky does, even without a subscription. Nor is the picture quality as good as they're coming via ariel rather than satellite.

[Neil Taperell]

A few years ago I would have had Hendry as the greatest purely on the basis of the amount of World Titles , but in the last couple of years due to the longevity of his career and still winning Tournaments …….O'Sullivan is the GOAT .

I don't believe that he will equal or beat Hendry's World Titles . Still believe that he has one more in him though .

Can't imagine that we will ever see anyone as good as O'Sullivan in our lifetime .

It is very hard to compare , I agree , but it does make for some decent discussions .

[vilkrang]

Rubbish. Nobody calls Rafa Nadal "the greatest" even though he's won the most French Open titles, you CANNOT go off a single tournament, it wouldn't happen in any other sport, makes zero sense. Once (if) he has the most triple crowns, that's the last argument anyone would have, snuffed out.

Stupid comparison. Format of the French Open is exactly the same as the other grand slams and as has been pointed out, isn’t the most prestigious tennis tournament. The World’s has always been the most important, triple crown victories have only been talked about as being as important relatively recently as a way to big Ronnie up and make up for the fact that on the biggest stage he has fallen short of the most successful players at that tournament.

I’m a Ronnie fan by the way but if he doesn’t at least equal Hendry then for me he will have underachieved (despite how amazing his career has been). I’ll be disappointed if he doesn’t get 7 world titles and hope he does so that he has every record.

[Ronnie's tip]

As things stand this is the seeded draw for the WC;

Mark Williams (1) v Dave Gilbert (16)

Kyren Wilson (8) v Barry Hawkins (9)

Mark Allen (5) v Stuart Bingham (12)

John Higgins (4) v Stephen Maguire (13)

Mark Selby (3) v Luca Brecel (14)

Judd Trump (6) v Shaun Murphy (11)*

Neil Robertson (7) v Ding Junhui (10)

Ronnie O’Sullivan (2)* v Jack Lisowski (15)

Obviously we have China coming up which can change things, but damn that bottom half looks stacked!

[ken147]

As things stand this is the seeded draw for the WC;

Mark Williams (1) v Dave Gilbert (16)

Kyren Wilson (8) v Barry Hawkins (9)

Mark Allen (5) v Stuart Bingham (12)

John Higgins (4) v Stephen Maguire (13)

Mark Selby (3) v Luca Brecel (14)

Judd Trump (6) v Shaun Murphy (11)*

Neil Robertson (7) v Ding Junhui (10)

Ronnie O’Sullivan (2)* v Jack Lisowski (15)

Obviously we have China coming up which can change things, but damn that bottom half looks stacked!

Isn't there 32 runners in the 1st round? I wouldn't of thought that Ronnie could potentially meet Robertson in the 2nd round so early.

[Cue crafty]

Regarding the ROS v Hendry debate, I think it should always be considered that Jimmy should have won at least one of those world titles. The one he really should have won and handed to Hendry on a plate in the end, doesn't, for me at least, make Hendrys 7th title one that elevates him above ROS if he were to win a 6th. It just means that Jimmy should have gone to bed earlier and practiced to focus better on the job at hand.

Titles aside, having watched these two giants of the game play through their whole careers, I personally feel Ronnie is a better snooker player overall. Even Stephen drools over many of the finesse shots he plays.