Mark Allen is at it again

[Strickimicki]

I think you may have one or two bullet proof arguments their, but I think you may be called a racist if you go along that road. Lance Armstrong was cheating for years, and he was being covered by cyclings governing body in my opinion. Anybody who rides away from known Doping offenders as if they were standing still, does or should be seriously looked at. I personally don't think that any race is more or less likely to cheat, it's always a certain individual that chooses to take that root. I also don't think you have the right to go around accusing people of cheating unless you have proof. I have seen video evidence of a certain player cheating, who I now won't name, but it leaves the question open, did he deliberately cheat or did he simply not notice that he fouled the ball? This discussion should not turn into a hate my neighbour squabble, but should make one think about how we would want the game to go in the future.

Brian.

[qaasim]

so basically you are basing your opinion on hearsay with 0 supporting facts & no first person encounters of your own relevant to the subject even - great logic - so if i hear a sex offender remark that all germans are promiscuous and run around naked at night on the street, this must hold a lot of weight.

mark allen is a racist - not only did he say that all the chinese players cheat, he made insulting comments about china, chinese people and chinese culture at last year's world open.

...and if you support such comments, yes, you are a racist too.

QFT... Thank you!

I do not have to know Mark Allen personally to witness public outbursts and his follow up statements of similar effect. Nor do I have
to be his aquaintance to see his childish, unsportsmanlike activities on the table.

And yes if you agree all the Chinese players are cheats you are a racist.

Rattling Ice cubes, throwing towels and walking out while someone is potting their last black are all insulting stupid things to do, combine that with blaytant racism and I just want to see this guy gone! Regardless of his snooker skills. Thankfully he is clearly oblivious to the thin ice he is stomping about on!

[arbitrage]

QFT... Thank you!

I do not have to know Mark Allen personally to witness public outbursts and his follow up statements of similar effect. Nor do I have
to be his aquaintance to see his childish, unsportsmanlike activities on the table.

And yes if you agree all the Chinese players are cheats you are a racist.

Rattling Ice cubes, throwing towels and walking out while someone is potting their last black are all insulting stupid things to do, combine that with blaytant racism and I just want to see this guy gone! Regardless of his snooker skills. Thankfully he is clearly oblivious to the thin ice he is stomping about on!

barry hearn said it best in an interview after allen's outburst against cao - "this is a very good time to be a snooker player. it is not a good time to be an idiot".

^^^^^^^^^^^^
mark allen & brian

[Strickimicki]

You two are outing yourselves as racists. You should be ashamed of yourselves, ranting on about what somebody else said or did then doing the same. Go have a good look in the mirror and see if you like the hideous face of racism.

Not a good start to your day,

Brian.

[DandyA]

just going back to the incident with Cao Yupeng at the WSC earlier this year, I've been trying to find a direct quote ... this is the closest I can find from the Daily Mail ...

He [Allen] said: ‘The referee missed a blatant push. It was obvious to me and anyone watching at home would have been able to see it, no problem.
‘Cao looked at the referee as soon as he did it, as if to say, “Are you not calling a foul here?” It seems to be a bit of a trait for the Chinese players because there have been a few instances in the past of fouls and blatant cheating going on. It needs to be corrected. He’s a good enough player that he doesn’t have to do that.
‘It’s very, very sad for the state of snooker if it has to be down to that.’

well that seems to me pretty clear - Allen is saying that it's a trait with Chinese players to [occasionally] blatantly cheat ... it was in an interview just after his loss when his emotions are running high but that does not condone such a statement ...

I'm not convinced it's a racist comment but, in my opinion, he'd be well advised to engage his grey matter before he lets his mouth run wild ...

link to full Daily Mail article ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/oth...eat-claim.html

[Strickimicki]

I agree with DandyA on all points mentioned. I don't think he's a racist at all, but just let his emotions get the better of him. A great player with a great future in the game.

[nrage]

just going back to the incident with Cao Yupeng at the WSC earlier this year, I've been trying to find a direct quote ... this is the closest I can find from the Daily Mail ...

He [Allen] said: ‘The referee missed a blatant push. It was obvious to me and anyone watching at home would have been able to see it, no problem.
‘Cao looked at the referee as soon as he did it, as if to say, “Are you not calling a foul here?” It seems to be a bit of a trait for the Chinese players because there have been a few instances in the past of fouls and blatant cheating going on. It needs to be corrected. He’s a good enough player that he doesn’t have to do that.
‘It’s very, very sad for the state of snooker if it has to be down to that.’

well that seems to me pretty clear - Allen is saying that it's a trait with Chinese players to [occasionally] blatantly cheat ... it was in an interview just after his loss when his emotions are running high but that does not condone such a statement ...

I'm not convinced it's a racist comment but, in my opinion, he'd be well advised to engage his grey matter before he lets his mouth run wild ...

link to full Daily Mail article ... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/oth...eat-claim.html

Finally an actual quote. Reading that, I believe that statement to be racist. Allen is saying [all] Chinese players have a trait of/for cheating, which is incorrect, unfair and because he is saying the trait is due to race, it is by definition racist. Sure, it's not strongly/obviously racist but it still qualifies as such.

It's just as racist to imply all white guys are cheats, as arbitrage has demonstrated. So, how about we ignore a players race and instead concentrate on what happened and more importantly try to divine their intent. The latter is actually incredibly hard to judge but is actually the most important consideration in the whole thing.

Anyone can accidentally foul, and it's easy enough to doubt yourself what happened and remain silent long enough that it becomes almost too late to call a foul on yourself. It's also incredibly tempting to stay quiet, even if you suspect a foul - even in entirely unimportant friendly matches. So, imagine the pressure on a player in a televised match, perhaps the most important one they have yet played in their career. It's easy to see how a player (of any race) might fail to call a foul on themselves, and that's why we have impartial referees to do that. If the referee didn't call it, then there was sufficient doubt. Also, remember the referee and player do not have the advantage of slow motion replays to help them, but only the full speed event. One blink at the wrong time and they might miss it.

[jrc750]

.... It's also incredibly tempting to stay quiet, even if you suspect a foul - even in entirely unimportant friendly matches. ....

NO IT'S NOT !!!!!!
This is just wrong, if you think you fouled you SHOULD OWN UP

[nrage]

NO IT'S NOT !!!!!!
This is just wrong, if you think you fouled you SHOULD OWN UP

No argument here, but that doesn't change the fact that it's tempting to stay quiet. Basic human nature. Anyone who says otherwise is lying, or fooling themselves.

[jrc750]

It's only tempting if your a CHEAT
That's the problem nowadays no morals, just look at football, i can't stand to watch it because of all the diving and cheating, no skill involved there, well maybe acting skills, that's about it !!!

[nrage]

It's only tempting if your a CHEAT
That's the problem nowadays no morals, just look at football, i can't stand to watch it because of all the diving and cheating, no skill involved there, well maybe acting skills, that's about it !!!

Feeling temptation and giving into it are 2 different things. Everyone suffers from the first (except for people who are actually dysfunctional in some way). Morality applies to the giving in, or not to those desires. You are a cheat if and only if you give in to the desires. You're suggesting that thinking or feeling something is the same as doing something, which is just plain wrong.

[jrc750]

Feeling temptation and giving into it are 2 different things. Everyone suffers from the first (except for people who are actually dysfunctional in some way). Morality applies to the giving in, or not to those desires. You are a cheat if and only if you give in to the desires. You're suggesting that thinking or feeling something is the same as doing something, which is just plain wrong.

Hmm too many words mate, you either know right or wrong and act accordingly

[nrage]

Hmm too many words mate, you either know right or wrong and act accordingly

Sure, you do, I do, we all do that. But life, people and events are never that black and white, assuming they are causes arguments like this one. Intent is what really matters. For example you can be wrong, but honestly so, and would therefore not be "cheating". In exactly the same circumstances if you knew you were wrong, you would be cheating. Intent is everything.

[arbitrage]

I agree with DandyA on all points mentioned. I don't think he's a racist at all, but just let his emotions get the better of him. A great player with a great future in the game.

no, i'm not discriminating against you or anyone because of race - if you want to accuse me of something, accuse me of discriminating against you because you are daft and so poor at processing information that you can't understand my examples were used to refute your "arguments" and "logic" and at the same time, sarcastically poke fun at the fact that you are the racist supporting another racist called mark allen.

example: this must be a great start to your day as your intelligence must be a beacon of light illuminating the area for those around you.

[LittleMissAlexa]

[U][I]

What happened to freedom of speech in this country. He cocked up and paid the price.....he is likely to cock up again but at least he has the b0110cks to say what he thinks.

accusing ppl of cheating is slander if untrue which isnt freedom of speech