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  • Originally posted by SouthPaw View Post
    Well at least you explain your logic properly unlike others in this thread who just insult, even if i don't agree with it...
    Insults only show you have no argument/point to make.

    Originally posted by SouthPaw View Post
    Okay a couple of other examples, I believe Chinese people are the smallest in the world, America have the most obese people on the planet! I'm stating what I've read and learnt so because i'm outing a particular group i'm being racist?
    By my definition, yes.

    The one I linked on dictionary.com disagrees slightly in that it requires one of:
    - belief of superiority
    - government involvement
    - hatred or intolerance

    So, given that none of the above statements show any of those, they would not be racist by that definition.

    Originally posted by SouthPaw View Post
    Now here's a couple of examples of what i deem racism to be! All polish people are thick and drink vodka all day! Chinese people are all dwarfs with funny eyes! Making monkey chants at black skinned human beings and throwing bananas. All things i wouldn't even dare to do and say because i have morals and respect for all races and cultures...
    Right, all those imply some sort of hatred or intolerance so would be racist by the dictionary.com definition.

    Originally posted by SouthPaw View Post
    Now can you see why i don't consider my previous statements to be racist, if not we'll have to agree to disagree!
    Fair enough. The Q to ask is, did your previous statement show/imply any belief of superiority or hatred/intolerance toward Asian players? If so..
    "Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error"
    - Linus Pauling

    Comment


    • Originally posted by nrage View Post

      Fair enough. The Q to ask is, did your previous statement show/imply any belief of superiority or hatred/intolerance toward Asian players? If so..
      I'd have to say no mainly because it wasn't belittling, hateful or intolerant towards another race at all, the fact of the matter is that this type of situation doesn't happen on a regular basis and doesn't affect how i perceive Asian players as a whole, merely just an observation of what I've personally witnessed happen on a more consistent basis imo than with other races.
      Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning...

      Comment


      • [QUOTE=SouthPaw;682796]I'd have to say no mainly because it wasn't belittling, hateful or intolerant towards another race at all, the fact of the matter is that this type of situation doesn't happen on a regular basis and doesn't affect how i perceive Asian players as a whole, merely just an observation of what I've personally witnessed happen on a more consistent basis imo than with other races.

        your original posting:

        [/Couldn't agree more and exactly how i perceive Asian players from watching them, not having a dig but i feel Chinese and other far east countries are brought up with a win at all cost mentality, probably just natural to them not to admit any wrong doing, and before anyone calls me a racist, i have a Chinese friend who agrees whole heartily. Take the incident which Luca Brecel declared a foul on himself last night which no one noticed, would that happen with for talks sake Cao Yupeng owning up, i think not...

        Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz2EOqvVe4s
        - TSF - TheSnookerForum.com QUOTE]

        next time you decide to lie, at least erase your original posting. you paintbrushed all asian and all chinese people with that racist comment ok.

        Well at least you explain your logic properly unlike others in this thread who just insult, even if i don't agree with it...

        Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz2EOrnDfxx
        - TSF - TheSnookerForum.com

        one of your inane responses (such logic):

        I'm not going to argue with idiots, as it's impossible to win! But if you keep calling people racist on here for comments unrelated that you don't like, your just going look childish with no respect!

        Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz2EOsbbC6b
        - TSF - TheSnookerForum.com

        daft racist troll - and i'm not a coward like you - i will not run from this comment and try and obfuscate the facts.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by arbitrage View Post
          and i'm not a coward like you
          Yes, you are. You are afraid of sensible conversation with people who disagree with you, especially when you run out of reasonable arguments (which usually doesn't take too long). When in a situation like that you eventually run away shouting ad hominems and insults. On the other hand, when someone backs you or your agenda, you don't dillydally to suck them up. That's the kind of internet-greatness you are. Real hero! You might not be a racist, but coward you are.

          Comment


          • [QUOTE=arbitrage;682815]
            Originally posted by SouthPaw View Post
            I'd have to say no mainly because it wasn't belittling, hateful or intolerant towards another race at all, the fact of the matter is that this type of situation doesn't happen on a regular basis and doesn't affect how i perceive Asian players as a whole, merely just an observation of what I've personally witnessed happen on a more consistent basis imo than with other races.

            your original posting:

            [/Couldn't agree more and exactly how i perceive Asian players from watching them, not having a dig but i feel Chinese and other far east countries are brought up with a win at all cost mentality, probably just natural to them not to admit any wrong doing, and before anyone calls me a racist, i have a Chinese friend who agrees whole heartily. Take the incident which Luca Brecel declared a foul on himself last night which no one noticed, would that happen with for talks sake Cao Yupeng owning up, i think not...

            Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz2EOqvVe4s
            - TSF - TheSnookerForum.com QUOTE]

            next time you decide to lie, at least erase your original posting. you paintbrushed all asian and all chinese people with that racist comment ok.

            Well at least you explain your logic properly unlike others in this thread who just insult, even if i don't agree with it...

            Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz2EOrnDfxx
            - TSF - TheSnookerForum.com

            one of your inane responses (such logic):

            I'm not going to argue with idiots, as it's impossible to win! But if you keep calling people racist on here for comments unrelated that you don't like, your just going look childish with no respect!

            Original Source: http://www.thesnookerforum.com/board...#ixzz2EOsbbC6b
            - TSF - TheSnookerForum.com

            daft racist troll - and i'm not a coward like you - i will not run from this comment and try and obfuscate the facts.
            It seems your very quick to insult people on here if you don't agree! I have full respect for Nrage for reasons i need not repeat and more, but have nothing but pity for you! As you've clearly got some issues...
            Don't let the fear of losing be greater than the excitement of winning...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by SouthPaw View Post
              I'd have to say no mainly because it wasn't belittling, hateful or intolerant towards another race at all, the fact of the matter is that this type of situation doesn't happen on a regular basis and doesn't affect how i perceive Asian players as a whole, merely just an observation of what I've personally witnessed happen on a more consistent basis imo than with other races.
              I have to agree with you, re-reading your exact words:

              Originally posted by SouthPaw View Post
              Couldn't agree more and exactly how i perceive Asian players from watching them, not having a dig but i feel Chinese and other far east countries are brought up with a win at all cost mentality, probably just natural to them not to admit any wrong doing, and before anyone calls me a racist, i have a Chinese friend who agrees whole heartily. Take the incident which Luca Brecel declared a foul on himself last night which no one noticed, would that happen with for talks sake Cao Yupeng owning up, i think not...
              And going by the dictionary.com definition (for the sake of argument):
              http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/racism?s=t

              I'm not seeing any suggestion that the cheating is inherent in an/any Asian race or that your own race is superior (unless perhaps you're Belgian ) (definition 1). Nor do see any hatred or intolerance there (definition 3).

              I still think it's wrong for someone to assume an Asian player (they otherwise don't know from a bar of soap) is going to act in the manner you describe, simply because they are Asian. (Not saying you would/do, just a general comment).

              But, it's not "racist" as per the dictionary.com definition. I have decided to revise my own definition to match as I was missing the finer points that you have to believe the fault is inherent in the race (which to me implies it's genetic) and/or express actual hatred/intolerance which are far stronger terms than I was imagining.
              "Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error"
              - Linus Pauling

              Comment


              • Mark Allen is a muppet.

                His mouth runs too fast for his peanut brain to keep up with.

                The only rivalry he has is with the other nearly boys.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by arbitrage View Post
                  the snooker authorities did the right thing by fining him as he breached the terms of the players contract - i see no reason why barry hearn would bend over to the chinese as you claim - conversely, if a chinese player makes the same unfounded allegations about english players, i'm sure the snooker authorities would do the right thing and mete out appropriate punishment.
                  I understand that emotions are running high on this thread and also that arbitrage's logic or opinions are not to everyone's tastes but surely he has a very good point there, doesn't he?

                  whilst not wishing to appear racist and not detracting from his point, I suppose I should point out that Mark Allen is (I think) Northern Irish and his coach is a Welshman, Terry Griffiths ... but I'm being pedantic for no good reason ...

                  I certainly agree with your sentiment arbitrage ... that the same penalty should be applied, and I believe it would, whether it's an English player saying all Chinese players are cheats, or whether it's a Chinese player calling all English players cheats or, as in this case, a Northern Irish player suggesting many Chinese players are cheats ...

                  it needs to be dealt with and the WPBSA seem to be doing a good (if difficult) job ... short of fitting a medically implanted zip over his mouth, I'm not sure they could do any more ...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by SouthPaw View Post
                    I'm not going to argue with idiots, as it's impossible to win! But if you keep calling people racist on here for comments unrelated that you don't like, your just going look childish with no respect!
                    Agreed, but unfortunately some ppl love the drama.. So sad how this forum has declined over the last 2-3 yrs.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by arbitrage View Post
                      fact is - mark allen made racist comments not only once but repeatedly and is to this day sticking by them. this makes him a racist in any sense of the word. personally i don't believe that there was any malice on his part - perhaps as you say, his communication skills are not great - but nevertheless, the comments he made were way out of line and racist in nature. also, accusing other players of cheating w/o any supporting evidence whatsoever is slander and the fact that he said "all" chinese players including those he pointed to by name is worse because of the racial profiling.

                      the snooker authorities did the right thing by fining him as he breached the terms of the players contract - i see no reason why barry hearn would bend over to the chinese as you claim - conversely, if a chinese player makes the same unfounded allegations about english players, i'm sure the snooker authorities would do the right thing and mete out appropriate punishment.
                      If Mark Allen had said "all these chinks are cheats", then it would have indeed been a racist remark, as he said it, in my mind anyway, it was his opinion of their culture that made them accept refereeing decisions rather than police themselves, put rather inarticulately that could be construed as racist. The chinese do after all live in a police state and getting one over on an authority figure is a little victory for such people and ingrained to be habit and part of the culture.
                      Maybe that's why so many south american footballers are divers, why so many spanish footballers are divers, why so many italian footballers are divers, why diving in football originated in Germany. See the political connection ?
                      Of course this could simply be coincidence and conjecture but not all cultures are the same and what is seen as natural behaviour in one is not condoned in others.

                      The snooker authorities need to explain exactly why there is a players contract in place that restricts freedom of speech.

                      Barry Hearn is bending over for his cut, that's the only reason he does what he does. He doesn't give a toss about snooker, or boxing, or darts just his cut. He's a businessman and that's what businessmen are like, fair doesn't enter into it.
                      Last edited by vmax4steve; 10 December 2012, 11:57 AM.

                      Comment


                      • I think Allen is a good player and like his humour around the table, he's provided some genuine laughs. But I think he's being outspoken for the sake of it. His criticism of Chinese players, of China itself is distressful to say the least.
                        Personally I think he should zip it for a while and concentrate on trying to win the top tournaments. He's more than capable.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Inoffthered View Post
                          Agreed, but unfortunately some ppl love the drama.. So sad how this forum has declined over the last 2-3 yrs.
                          Is there a story you have to share about that photo you identify yourself with? I noticed in another post a little while back that you said you were racist, is your pic some expression of that?
                          Tear up that manure-fed astroturf!

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by vmax4steve View Post
                            If Mark Allen had said "all these chinks are cheats", then it would have indeed been a racist remark, as he said it, in my mind anyway, it was his opinion of their culture that made them accept refereeing decisions rather than police themselves, put rather inarticulately that could be construed as racist. The chinese do after all live in a police state and getting one over on an authority figure is a little victory for such people and ingrained to be habit and part of the culture.
                            Maybe that's why so many south american footballers are divers, why so many spanish footballers are divers, why so many italian footballers are divers, why diving in football originated in Germany. See the political connection ?
                            Of course this could simply be coincidence and conjecture but not all cultures are the same and what is seen as natural behaviour in one is not condoned in others.

                            The snooker authorities need to explain exactly why there is a players contract in place that restricts freedom of speech.

                            Barry Hearn is bending over for his cut, that's the only reason he does what he does. He doesn't give a toss about snooker, or boxing, or darts just his cut. He's a businessman and that's what businessmen are like, fair doesn't enter into it.
                            again using the free speech excuse accusations without evidence are slander not free speech and if in print they are libel
                            Goddess Of All Things Cue Sports And Winner Of The 2012 German Masters and World Open Fantasy Games and the overall 2011-12 Fantasy Game

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LittleMissAlexa View Post
                              again using the free speech excuse accusations without evidence are slander not free speech and if in print they are libel
                              Then it would be up to the individual concerned to take action to clear their name against the individual who made the allegations. There is a law in place for that so therefore no need for any governing body or association to force players to sign contracts that limit freedom of speech.
                              The trouble with contracts of this sort is that they are designed to appease those with something to hide, usually a sponsor or person with a public persona that is based on lies and deceit.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by vmax4steve View Post
                                The trouble with contracts of this sort is that they are designed to appease those with something to hide, usually a sponsor or person with a public persona that is based on lies and deceit.
                                Maybe. But, baseless allegations can still do a lot of financial damage to completely innocent parties even if eventually proven to be baseless, and that's what contracts like these intend to prevent.
                                "Do unto others 20% better than you would expect them to do unto you, to correct for subjective error"
                                - Linus Pauling

                                Comment

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