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is this a free ball, i got told no .....

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  • #31
    Originally Posted by jrc750 View Post
    Yes a free ball, why did someone tell you it wasn't ??
    This whole debate was started months ago when Jan Verhaas said it is (technically) not a free ball!
    Duplicate of banned account deleted

    Comment


    • #32
      Did he say Technically as in "not in a practice"?

      I would imagine that if he made that call at the Crucible there would be uproar.

      Comment


      • #33
        This is the best rule question I have every seen on this forum and I think LondonLad147 has answered it correctly.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally Posted by blahblah01 View Post
          Did he say Technically as in "not in a practice"?
          Knowing Jan he'd probably call it!

          I've been a referee for 27½ years, and until this scenario came up a few months ago, it would never have occurred to me not to call a free ball. I think it would be a brave ref not to call a free ball in this kind of scenario.
          Duplicate of banned account deleted

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally Posted by Phantom_Pc View Post
            https://ibb.co/j5fFev

            try this one ... sorry

            following a foul the incoming player approaches the table should the referee give a free ball?
            (your on the last red on the table, ball in way is green (ish)

            ball on is red
            (last one)


            https://ibb.co/j5fFev

            try this one ... sorry
            Defo a free ball

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally Posted by Londonlad147 View Post
              This whole debate was started months ago when Jan Verhaas said it is (technically) not a free ball!
              He must be off his head

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally Posted by Terry Davidson View Post
                How can this not be a free ball? Ignore the cushion aspect and look at left side of the object ball. It appears to me people are using the free ball rule and cushion in the wrong manner. Read the free ball rule and see if it applies to this scenario.

                Of course the player always has the 'shoot again' option but a free ball would be better (and more correct to my mind). Of course I'm a referee but only the lowest level, either Class C or Level III, whichever is the first one.

                Another example is put the 2 balls anywhere else on the table and what's the call? The angle has nothing to do with it.
                Your right Terry

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally Posted by Londonlad147 View Post
                  Sorry, no you can't!

                  Try drawing a straight line from the left side of the cue ball to the right side of the red. That is where the cue ball would have to be deemed to hit the red, and it is prevented from doing so, initially, by the curved part of the cushion. It's nothing to do with hitting as much as is visible.
                  Are you seriously saying you couldn't pot that red if the green wasn't there? To be fair my eyes are well dodgy but give me a couple of goes and I could pot that, or at least rattle it.
                  This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
                  https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally Posted by itsnoteasy View Post
                    Are you seriously saying you couldn't pot that red if the green wasn't there? To be fair my eyes are well dodgy but give me a couple of goes and I could pot that, or at least rattle it.
                    But that's NOT the definition of a snooker. Whether it is pottable doesn't come in to it. Potting angle does not equate to finest edge!

                    Imagine this scenario. Last red is tight on the green side cushion at the top (black) end of the table. The cue ball is exactly one ball's width away from the same side cushion say on the baulk line table. There is the black adjacent to the red, but 1mm less than a ball's width away from it. Therefore the cue ball won't pass between the gap. Because the cue ball cannot make contact with the extreme right edge of the ball then there is a free ball (assuming this was after a foul). The red can be hit full ball; it is pottable; but there is a free ball.
                    Duplicate of banned account deleted

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally Posted by Dave_marsy View Post
                      He must be off his head
                      But technically he is correct, the way the rule is worded at present.
                      Duplicate of banned account deleted

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally Posted by itsnoteasy View Post
                        Are you seriously saying you couldn't pot that red if the green wasn't there? To be fair my eyes are well dodgy but give me a couple of goes and I could pot that, or at least rattle it.
                        What's that got to do with the question ...is this a free ball....if you can't hit both exstream edges it's a free ball ..in this case the green is stopping the pot ...you need to be able to hit all the red

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Correct, but that's a ball blocking ( if I have understood it right)and not a cushion, and a ball can't be snookered by a cushion,( you can't say if the flat of the cushion wasn't there I could hit more of it) so if you can hit as much as possible ( which in this case is the potting angle as it's cushion and ball at the same time if the green is removed )it's a free ball , the flat of the cushion doesn't come into play and the knuckle isn't blocking you hitting as much of the ball as possible.
                          I have read your post on the other thread and you say if it was moved down an inch or so it would be a free ball, so I think it may just be how we are seeing the shot as I think if you moved it up an inch it wouldn't be a free ball as the knuckle would then be in the way.
                          This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
                          https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally Posted by Dave_marsy View Post
                            What's that got to do with the question ...is this a free ball....if you can't hit both exstream edges it's a free ball ..in this case the green is stopping the pot ...you need to be able to hit all the red
                            That's not correct. There are loads of occasions you are not able to hit both extremes and it's not a free ball, you can not count the flat of the cushion as a blocking point, remember you can't be snookered by a cushion.
                            This is how you play darts ,MVG two nines in the same match!
                            https://youtu.be/yqTGtwOpHu8

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally Posted by itsnoteasy View Post
                              Correct, but that's a ball blocking ( if I have understood it right)and not a cushion, and a ball can't be snookered by a cushion,( you can't say if the flat of the cushion wasn't there I could hit more of it) so if you can hit as much as possible ( which in this case is the potting angle as it's cushion and ball at the same time if the green is removed )it's a free ball , the flat of the cushion doesn't come into play and the knuckle isn't blocking you hitting as much of the ball as possible.
                              I have read your post on the other thread and you say if it was moved down an inch or so it would be a free ball, so I think it may just be how we are seeing the shot as I think if you moved it up an inch it wouldn't be a free ball as the knuckle would then be in the way.
                              You have got to be able to hit all of the red the green ball is the obstruction ...so ITS A FREE BALL

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                              • #45
                                Originally Posted by Londonlad147 View Post
                                Knowing Jan he'd probably call it!

                                I've been a referee for 27½ years, and until this scenario came up a few months ago, it would never have occurred to me not to call a free ball. I think it would be a brave ref not to call a free ball in this kind of scenario.
                                Yep.

                                For those thinking it isn't a Free Ball, as the Rule is written... (well my understanding)

                                You have a Free Ball: you play to pot the Black and miss. Being cunning, you play the pot to leave the last red snookered behind the Pink, which works.

                                However the Black has rolled into a similar line (ie between the CB and Red): is it a Freeball?

                                Answer: it depends which side of the Pink the Black is. If it CB side then it is a Free Ball, if it is Red side then it isn't - as the FIRST obstruction is the only relevant one ie the Pink.

                                In the photo above, the curve of the cushion is the first obstruction, so the Green is irrelevant. However, the curve is an integral part of the table, which is not relevant in Free Balls.

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