is this a free ball, i got told no .....

[Londonlad147]

The curve doesn't matter green is stopping you hitting the red ....it dosent matter if you can pot the red or not
No matter what it's a Free Ball

No, I agree, the curved part of the cushion does NOT stop you hitting the red. However, just hitting is is not sufficient. You need to be able to hit the far right edge (the finest edge), the point would be beyond where the straight part of the cushion is, and the path of the cue ball to get to that angle would hit the curved part of the cushion first, so NO FREE BALL.

[blahblah01]

You need to consider that the point where you need to hit the red is NOT where you can hit the red and cushion simultaneously, but where you would hit the finest edge of the red if the straight part of the cushion wasn't there. They are two different paths, and the curved part of the cushion is in the way of hitting the finest edge.

As a pedant: I'll disagree there, as you will hit the red on that line with a straight cushion...... But that might help the people not understanding as this is not possible with the curve.

[Dave_marsy]

No, that is incorrect.

The curved part of a pocket is considered to be an obstruction, and if that is nearer to the cue ball than an obstructing ball, then no free ball can be given.

2.17:

(e) The cue-ball cannot be snookered by a cushion. If the curved face of a
cushion obstructs the cue-ball and is closer to the cue-ball than any
obstructing ball not on, the cue-ball is not snookered.

I don't think that's rellivent the to the original question

[Londonlad147]

For those that aren't getting this:

The Rule is designed for the CB being in the jaws of the pocket from a Foul, however, it is badly worded so that it applies in the photo.

The photo SHOULD be a Free Ball, but the Rule is badly worded, and few, if any Ref's would actually enforce it due to the bad wording.

Hear, hear! I've also submitted a few other suggested rule changes to improve clarity, but that was months ago and heard nothing.

[blahblah01]

I don't think that's rellivent the to the original question

It is as the CB on line to hit the right edge of the red goes off to the middle of the table.....

[Londonlad147]

I don't think that's rellivent the to the original question

That's totally relevant to the OP, which is why we're having this debate.

It shouldn't be relevant but the way the wording is, it is relevant.

[Londonlad147]

No Free ball.jpg

OK, excuse the crudeness of the illustration, but this is why TECHNICALLY there is no free ball. The drawing shows the path the cue ball would have to take to hit the finest right hand edge of the red. It would hit the curved part of the centre pocket before hitting the green.

[blahblah01]

Crude? You are Tony Hart and da Vinci combined

[Londonlad147]

Crude? You are Tony Hart and da Vinci combined

Haha, I won't give up the day job just yet though!

[Dave_marsy]

[QUOTE=Londonlad147;935831]No, I agree, the curved part of the cushion does NOT stop you hitting the red. However, just hitting is is not sufficient. You need to be able to hit the far right edge (the finest edge), the point would be beyond where the straight part of the cushion is, and the path of the cue ball to get to that angle would hit the curved part of the cushion first, so NO FREE BALL To determine its not a free ball you need to be able to hit both exstream edges of the red .....if you can it's No free ball but it's the green that is restricting you hitting 80% of the red
....the angle of the cushion only restricts you slightly
So it's a Free Ball all day long in my book lol

[Londonlad147]

if you can it's No free ball but it's the green that is restricting you hitting 80% of the red
....the angle of the cushion only restricts you slightly. So it's a Free Ball all day long in my book lol

No, because it is the FIRST obstruction that is relevant. It matters not that it only 'slightly' restricts you.

[Londonlad147]

[QUOTE=Dave_marsy;935843]

No, I agree, the curved part of the cushion does NOT stop you hitting the red. However, just hitting is is not sufficient. You need to be able to hit the far right edge (the finest edge), the point would be beyond where the straight part of the cushion is, and the path of the cue ball to get to that angle would hit the curved part of the cushion first, so NO FREE BALL To determine its not a free ball you need to be able to hit both exstream edges of the red .....if you can it's No free ball but it's the green that is restricting you hitting 80% of the red
....the angle of the cushion only restricts you slightly
So it's a Free Ball all day long in my book lol

Think about this scenario. The cue ball is on the brown spot. The last red is on the blue spot, with say pink and black either side and touching it, on the cross-centre line of the table. The pink is only partially obstructing the red. The black is also only partially obstructing the red. Therefore, by your logic, it's not a free ball. Of course it's a free ball and because they are equidistant from the cue ball both would be considered to be effective snookering balls.

[blahblah01]

So where are the Brown and Blue?

[Ramon]

[ATTACH]18854[/ATTACH]

OK, excuse the crudeness of the illustration, but this is why TECHNICALLY there is no free ball. The drawing shows the path the cue ball would have to take to hit the finest right hand edge of the red. It would hit the curved part of the centre pocket before hitting the green.

Is this a free ball , yes , Or , NO ??

Make up your mind !!

[itsnoteasy]

[ATTACH]18854[/ATTACH]

OK, excuse the crudeness of the illustration, but this is why TECHNICALLY there is no free ball. The drawing shows the path the cue ball would have to take to hit the finest right hand edge of the red. It would hit the curved part of the centre pocket before hitting the green.

Where in the rules does it say you have to be able to hit the extreme edges of a ball against a cushion?
P.s, it's a very good diagram though