Snooker teaser how do you make a 157?

[t.lavery55]

So what would happen if a referee put a red back on the table on the brown spot instead of the brown after it was sunk while there were still other reds on the table? The player has already sunk another red and then notices the mistake? We have a colour-blind player at our club that can't see the difference between red and the brown ball. I know he can ask if the ball is red or brown when playing but what if he was refereeing?

Not likely I know but I wonder what would happen.

If the referee's error was noticed before any more shots had been played, then the extra red would be removed, and the brown would be placed on its spot. If however, the extra red had been potted, or it had been moved such that no one could identify which red it was, it would be counted as an extra red, enabling more points to be scored.

I am fairly sure that you cannot become a referee if you are colour-blind, because of the problems it could create. However, if it did happen, there is nothing in the rules that says that a referee cannot ask a player the colour of a ball, and hopefully the players would be kind enough to inform him.

[DeanH]

something very similar actually happened, ROS was in a break, he potted the Black, the referee picked a ball out and spotted it, ROS in full flow played the next Red, unfortuantely the ball spotted was a Red.
Cannot remember entirely what the outcome and details were, but I am sure the Referee called foul as he had played a shot with an incorrect ball on the table. no sure, anyone have details/link?
It was say 2-3 years ago.

[t.lavery55]

something very similar actually happened, ROS was in a break, he potted the Black, the referee picked a ball out and spotted it, ROS in full flow played the next Red, unfortuantely the ball spotted was a Red.
Cannot remember entirely what the outcome and details were, but I am sure the Referee called foul as he had played a shot with an incorrect ball on the table. no sure, anyone have details/link?
It was say 2-3 years ago.

I cannot recall seeing that exactly, but I wonder if what you are referring to is the incident on the link below. If it is, then this is a little different because ROS played before the referee had time to re-spot the black, so it is a foul. In discussing the above scenario, I am assuming that the player has given the referee sufficient time to re-spot the balls correctly, and therefore he will not be penalised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRQQG7EiHtk

[mythman69]

something very similar actually happened, ROS was in a break, he potted the Black, the referee picked a ball out and spotted it, ROS in full flow played the next Red, unfortuantely the ball spotted was a Red.
Cannot remember entirely what the outcome and details were, but I am sure the Referee called foul as he had played a shot with an incorrect ball on the table. no sure, anyone have details/link?
It was say 2-3 years ago.

I found this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzh51SI1eKY

Called a foul. End of frame break anyway.

Same video as above post . . .

[DeanH]

this one is interesting as well - i.e. ROS did not wait for the ball to be spotted and the referee to call the break, so yes foul.
Actually I was thinking of another match/event, the referee had actually spotted the Red, called the break then - at the sametime ROS played the next shot - he noticed the mistake and did not have time to call a stop.
I think it could have been an event in Europe somewhere. ?

[t.lavery55]

this one is interesting as well - i.e. ROS did not wait for the ball to be spotted and the referee to call the break, so yes foul.
Actually I was thinking of another match/event, the referee had actually spotted the Red, called the break then - at the sametime ROS played the next shot - he noticed the mistake and did not have time to call a stop.
I think it could have been an event in Europe somewhere. ?

I don't think I saw this particular incident, but, I would have thought that, if the referee had already called the break, then he had signalled to ROS that he was ready for him to play his next shot, and therefore a foul should not have been called.

[DeanH]

Yep, the break had been called before the mistake was noticed, ROS played his shot, Rferee called Foul, then the referee spotted the missing Black. If only I can find a clip of it.
IIRC ROS did pot the "second" Red. So whould you not have called Foul, Replaced the Black, call the break and continue?
still searching for any clip

[t.lavery55]

Yep, the break had been called before the mistake was noticed, ROS played his shot, Rferee called Foul, then the referee spotted the missing Black. If only I can find a clip of it.
IIRC ROS did pot the "second" Red. So whould you not have called Foul, Replaced the Black, call the break and continue?
still searching for any clip

So the mistake was obvious to ROS before he played the shot then? If it was clear to everyone that the referee had noticed his mistake, and he had already gone to replace the red with the black, in ROS's view, then I suppose a foul could be justified on the grounds that ROS had not given him sufficient time to correct his mistake, but really, once the referee has called the break, then unless he then asks Ronnie to wait as he has made a mistake, a foul would not normally be appropriate.

One factor that might help: was the frame already secure at the time (as Ronnie sometimes doesn't bother to wait for the referee in such circumstances), or could the other player still win?

[DeanH]

IIRC there were many reds still on the table, so probably the frame was not "safe".
Whether ROS observed the erroneous Red on the black spot I dont know, but from what I recall he probably did not notice it before playing his shot.
But as you say, as ROS was in flull flow there was not much time (milli-secs) between the break call and next strike.

[mythman69]

I couldn't find it, but I did find this video that shows they do make mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IErYCpntUaY

[t.lavery55]

IIRC there were many reds still on the table, so probably the frame was not "safe".
Whether ROS observed the erroneous Red on the black spot I dont know, but from what I recall he probably did not notice it before playing his shot.
But as you say, as ROS was in flull flow there was not much time (milli-secs) between the break call and next strike.

In that case, unless the referee said something to ROS before he played the shot, then I would say that no foul should have been called, in accordance with section 3 rule 7 (a) of the rule book. It is not the player's responsibility to check the table before he plays his shot, to see that the referee has spotted the balls correctly. I think that the rule is intended to be written such, that a player will only be fouled if he knowingly plays before a referee has re-spotted a colour (or for a situation where he should have known it, as, for example, the referee has not yet called the score). Do you remember whether the referee officiating this match was an experienced one or relatively new to professional refereeing?


This also raises the question of whether it is a foul to play before the referee has called the score, even if the colour has been re-spotted. Before 2011 if definitely wouldn't have been, but I wonder now, that through applying section 2 rule 6 (iv), whether maybe it should now be called a foul, as the previous stroke is still considered to be in progress?

[t.lavery55]

I couldn't find it, but I did find this video that shows they do make mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IErYCpntUaY

Ha yes, fortunately that time Neil Robertson was alert enough to spot the error before he played his next shot!

[t.lavery55]

I couldn't find it, but I did find this video that shows they do make mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IErYCpntUaY

I also remember an occasion in China once where the referee re-spotted the blue on a chalk mark instead of its spot, and at first the player didn't notice, but then saw what had happened and asked the referee to correct it just in time, before he played his next shot.

[ADR147]

i think if a ref cocked that up when i 155 break was on the player would point it out! and the ref would never work again

[t.lavery55]

i think if a ref cocked that up when i 155 break was on the player would point it out!

You would think so, but then again, maybe the player would rather like the idea of making history with a higher break than anyone has ever had before and so prefer not to mention the mistake! Personally, even if I was the opponent in the chair, I might still be tempted not to say anything, just so I could see it happen!