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  • Brexit, in or out.

    So let's get political, there's about a month left to go before we in the UK vote whether to stay in the EU or leave; what is your decision and why.

    Myself I'm voting out, too many migrants coming over from the former eastern block countries keeping wages down in my area that are already the lowest in the UK.
    I saw this coming when they allowed these countries to join the EU, IMO it was a deliberate act to allow companies access to cheap labour, more than half the people I work with on the shop floor are eastern europeans, though strangely non of the management, wonder why

    Nice people, intelligent people, hard working, well most of them, and looking to better themselves financially, we have an accountant working for minimum wage because that's more than treble what he gets in Poland for accountancy; and that's my point really, people like these shouldn't be doing the menial work that those UK citizens on benefits should be doing, they should be working hard in their own countries helping to make those economies comparable to ours.

    And that takes time, look at what happened when Greece joined the euro, their currency was articficially boosted because their actual economy was a lot lower than the rest of the euro zone, Greece simply didn't have the capital needed when the financial crisis hit in 2008.

    Free movement of people is a good concept if all the economies are equal, and that used to be the case when the Common Market was first established, but as it morphed into the EU it turned into something different, nothing more than a cheap labour market for multi national companies run by beaurocrats easliy bought by the lobbyists.

    Then there's the Turkey question.

    It's taken us about 300 years to shake off our christian fundamentalism, to be enlightened by the age of science and to see how the world and the universe came into being, and how evolution brought humans into existence. We have a problem with Islamic communties now who refuse to look outside their religious texts and integrate into our society, we don't need hundreds of thousands more coming in and doing the same.

    I'm not in a position to wait 300 years for them to finally get it and realise that there is in fact no such thing as God, and that it's properly human to want and need sex, to treat women as equally and with the same respect as men and to partake of drugs and have a good time doing so.

  • #2
    I am not a political animal (with or without capital letter), I have not voted for God-knows how many year (as they are all the same to me) but I think we should stay, but with more control of our borders, our laws, etc.
    Legal "freedom of movement" per se is not a major problem but the illegal immigration that has been allowed to happen under our noses. These have created a hidden-slave work-force, they have caused near-collapse state of the NHS, benefits, etc, systems.
    Staying in allows us to keep the EU reigned in, if we left we would have no say in what they could be up to. Like who they allow to join next! Fiji?!
    Staying in does have major economic benefits to the UK, globally as well as just within the EU. Just remember what Obama said if UK left, we would become a second-rate, back-of-the-queue state (not that we are a first rate country anyway, just the way we think of ourselves )
    Staying in also have major benefits for the UK in with science, environmental and technological fields. Many projects that have been implemented probably would not have been able to start without us being in the EU.

    I am sure there are many other points that can be made for and against. And I appreciate your points Vmax; but just my humble opinion: better in and able to affect changes for our good, than being outside the walls and trying to peep-over and get their attention (to no avail).
    Up the TSF!

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    • #3
      Good luck people hope that whatever your decision it is the right one. We have to vote here in July for the next bunch of donkeys to run this country into the ground.

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      • #4
        Man put up borders - not God - just politicians

        Look at everyone and see what is inside... not nationality... nor race ... nor creed ....nor colour

        That said - For me the issue is not about immigration - I believe people in the UK will loose whatever little bit of democracy you feel you have voting to stay in a Europe that has already bankrupted a few countries.

        I am still undecided if I should vote - because I don't trust our government to make laws that benefit us anymore than I do the Euro MP's ...and its probably a wasted vote anyway as it will be fixed to stay in even if you do all vote out. Ireland voted out and they just had another vote till they got the result they wanted.

        Democracy is a myth.


        True story ---

        I was in a café having some lunch last year and overheard two old Pakistani blokes moaning about them (polish) coming over here and taking their jobs!

        Made me choke on me brew that one did-
        Last edited by Byrom; 12th May 2016, 01:15 PM.

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        • #5
          Bloody immigrants coming over here nicking our jobs eh!

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          • #6
            There are several good arguments for and against the EU but nobody is actually making them! Instead we have nonsense about immigration and benefits, Simply put very few people in the general population understand what is actually involved.
            https://www.ebay.co.uk/str/adr147

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            • #7
              Zackly. Yet they parrot all the bull they read in the daily mail or seen on the news..


              And don't realise how ignorant and narrow minded they really are.

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              • #8
                Simply put very few people in the general population understand what is actually involved.
                Very good point.

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                • #9
                  I'm still completely undecided, and I'll be out of the country for the vote so at least I don't have to make my mind up From a completely selfish point of view I have to say in, because I work mainly in the EU and that would go pear shaped in an out vote, but some of the reasons Vmax pointed out make me want to leave (cheap, non unionised workforce) but I don't trust the current crop of gloryholes we have in charge to do anything about that in the event of an out vote.

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                  • #10
                    real news from people who know


                    <iframe width="420" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7Bq_dkPkQUU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by vmax4steve View Post
                      Myself I'm voting out, too many migrants coming over from the former eastern block countries keeping wages down in my area that are already the lowest in the UK.
                      You're working on the assumption that the government would then stop all these people coming in - they've had all this time to reduce the numbers of non-EU migrants and done absolutely nothing, so why on Earth would they now?

                      In terms of wages, I used to work in an office job for a major media company. I was there 6 and a half years, got three payrises and passed two idiotic grading exams that technically made me the most qualified person in my department, by their own internal standards. When I left in 2009, I was on £15,000. The first year I was there, the chairman got a bonus of £57,000. There were no Poles, Romanians or anyone else around to drive wages down, but the company still treated us like **** and refused to pay us any more. It seems to be the modern way - bully your staff and keep them down, so I'm not sure leaving the EU will change that.


                      Similarly, you have a government dedicated to weakening human rights and trade union legislation, while on the other hand you have the EU voting seemingly unanimously to welcome Turkey, with its appalling human rights record and habit of imprisoning journalists, and stood idly by during the Milosevic affair.

                      I haven't decided how to vote, not sure I will because I don;t feel I'll ever have enough information to understand what I'm voting for, but I feel it's a question of "Stick with this cumbersome system I don't entirely approve of" or "Leave the union, make all decisions those of the UK government and then find the government doesn't care if I live or die. Hobson's choice.

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                      • #12
                        Just so you all know you must specifically register to vote in the eu referendum.

                        You can do so here https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

                        You must do it by June 7th.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rdp50734 View Post
                          Just so you all know you must specifically register to vote in the eu referendum.

                          You can do so here https://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote

                          You must do it by June 7th.
                          Incorrect, if you are already registered to vote, like in the recent locals, then you don't need to do anything.
                          If you are not registered to vote THEN you need to register.
                          Nothing "special" about having to register "specifically" for this EU referendum.

                          Quote:
                          "If you aren’t already registered to vote, you must register by 7 June if you want to vote in the EU referendum on 23 June."
                          Up the TSF!

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                          • #14
                            My apologies, I was told you had to register for this one specifically.

                            I stand corrected.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rdp50734 View Post
                              My apologies, I was told you had to register for this one specifically.

                              I stand corrected.
                              heard others mention this
                              Up the TSF!

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